[Politics] Brexit

[BadFish]

The NHS will change for the better when it gets its extra £350 million pounds per week that it was promised.

I think that will be the only positive change, quite a big one though.

Well that's true*





*technically it's not.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Any other news?

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

Delightful, it's a shame so many of the young, the bright, the educated, the energetic and the ambitious aren't more gracious in defeat and feel the need to stigmatise and sneer at those less fortunate than themselves.

You say "so many of the remainers aren't more gracious in defeat". I would say that it isn't many but in fact a few probably less than 5%. There are a lot of people who have expressed their misgivings and worries but i've seen only a small amount of sneering etc. Most people i know have expressed dismay at the result and then said c'est le vie.

Would you say that there isn't a small % of leave voters who wouldn't be the same (in fact the comments about riots etc kind of imply this). The empty vessel makes the most noise is quite apt here i feel

 

[KZNSeagull]

Confusion! Leadership required!

 

[Baldseagull]

The outcome was to LEAVE the EU. The question was do you want to remain or leave. Quite simple really. The question wasn't anything to do with the economic situation nor did it all anything about the state of our parties.

And as for rational, I'm sure there has never been such a large outpouring of 'it's not fair, they cheated, we don't like the result, they shouldn't be allowed to vote, this isn't really democracy as they didn't know the facts, the people who voted leave are thick, they are racist, it was old people who caused this problem, they are old they shouldn't have a vote, etc etc etc.

Absolutely pathetic whinging, moaning and crying from some people in the remain camp. They should look at the new political reality and take a leaf from the book of those MPs on question time yesterday who all advised, whether they liked the result or not, that the British people had democratically spoken and that their wishes should be adhered to.

If everyone that voted out knew what they were doing, really meant it and understood that £350 million was a lie and border control would probably not be total, surely we would get the same result again, so the only harm would be the time and money to do it?
It would be democratic wouldn't it?

 

[Hamilton]

If this wasn't so tragic, it would be funny. But it is tragic.

All this was set out pre-vote.


Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(

 

[looney]

It is nothing to do with this thread, the leader of the Leave campaign, the likely new leader of the government, stated in the Telegraph that free trade, free movement, and most of what we have with the EU will remain.

That isn't remainers, that is the leader of the Leave campaign.

I justread the BOjo quote, that is not what he said, read it again carefully.

 

[Driver8]

I don't understand why some people are surprised that freedom of movement of people is likely to remain. It has been pointed out many times, including on here, that that is likely to be top of the list of demands from the EU if we want to trade with them unfettered.

 

[darkwolf666]

Hurrah proportional representation

 

[pb21]

We leave, we then control the scale of immigration/population. Nobody needs to be thrown out, its not a berlin wall.

We will be able to control our borders and stop all those EU member state passport holding Muslims heading over here!

 

[JC Footy Genius]

JC how does that tally with a compromised withdrawal like the one suggested here?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...de-what-brexit-means-in-the-interests-of-the/

Will it be the case that how ever the withdrawal is negotiated some people are going to be disgruntled to some extent?

I am concerned that most people are not going to get what they expected and what will happen as a result of this. The country needs some bloody stunning leadership to negotiate this minefield.

I think many people will be frustrated at the pace of change and if there is any attempt to water down the commitments to end free movement I think you will be right to be concerned.

Polling has shown the vast majority want immigration rates reduced. For many years their views were completely ignored then with the rise of UKIP the Tories began to pay lip service to the issue while doing naff all to reduce the numbers. Many voted in the referendum because of or at least partly because of regaining full control over immigration (Take back control). If Free movement continues virtually unchanged these people will know 4 million votes for UKIP gets you one MP, 17 million votes still doesn't get you what you want ... why bother with democracy at all.

 

[Baldseagull]

I agree here. especially the party about manufacturing in the UK. Why not start to produce goods and services in the countries/areas that they are going to be used. Save money on transport and movement, increase employment and save the environment. It is a win win win. A political party offering this sort of simple logic to provide growth would get my vote.

E.U. trade tarriffs were there to make cheap imports less cheap, Britain wants to scrap that.

 

[severnside gull]

Boris is a complete twunt but he could well be right here. According to ComRes, the majority of voters across the political spectrum said their primary reason was taking back control of the decision-making. Immigration was some way behind in second place.

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

People are often unsurprisingly (?) reluctant to admit to racism and xenophobia being their primary motivation and will seek to rationalise their views in other terms. However listening to the debates and interviews during the campaign it was clearly a central issue and not just for Nigel Farage. At the very least (and to put it most kindly) reducing inward migration was very clearly a live and crucial issue

And yes, Boris is a complete twunt

 

[pb21]

I think many people will be frustrated at the pace of change and if there is any attempt to water down the commitments to end free movement I think you will be right to be concerned.

Polling has shown the vast majority want immigration rates reduced. For many years their views were completely ignored then with the rise of UKIP the Tories began to pay lip service to the issue while doing naff all to reduce the numbers. Many voted in the referendum because of or at least partly because of regaining full control over immigration (Take back control). If Free movement continues virtually unchanged these people will know 4 million votes for UKIP gets you one MP, 17 million votes still doesn't get you what you want ... why bother with democracy at all.

48% of people voted for things to stay as they are. I would expect at least 2% of those who voted out are happy with the current immigration policy. Therefore, on that basis, it would be undemocratic to go against the will of the people and change the immigration policy.

 

[tinycowboy]

Freedom of movement was one of the issues put forward by many in the Leave campaign, but, sorry to re-iterate this point yet again, the referendum question was not that specific. We are therefore faced with what surely we expected to face - Leave voters feeling betrayed, a number of EU officials looking to punish the UK and backtracking/denials from those heading up the Leave campaign. We now have a vacuum and, in the meantime, expect market volatility and a constant flow of contradictory information. If you were angry before the vote, things are only going to get worse.

 

[severnside gull]

I think this is old news unless you can point to a new article..

Mayor of Boulogne yesterday on French radio and television.

 

[OvingdeanSeagull]

Surprised by the amount of stupidity being showcased in this thread. You'll notice, however, that the people who voted leave are generally also the people with no grasp of spelling let alone any sort of punctuation. This isn't a coincidence.

 

[Seagull58]

Project Fear is over. No emergency budget

 

[smeg]

Surprised by the amount of stupidity being showcased in this thread. You'll notice, however, that the people who voted leave are generally also the people with no grasp of spelling let alone any sort of punctuation. This isn't a coincidence.

Steady on, the Remainers are a bit touchy about this subject

 

[JC Footy Genius]

48% of people voted for things to stay as they are. I would expect at least 2% of those who voted out are happy with the current immigration policy. Therefore, on that basis, it would be undemocratic to go against the will of the people and change the immigration policy.

You would be completely wrong then. As I said previously polling has consistently showed a vast majority (70% +) want immigration rates reduced.

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/14.3

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox....migration-overall-attitudes-and-level-concern