[Politics] Brexit

[severnside gull]

We called our own bluff and failed, the EU will not be knocking at our door any time soon, we never engaged with Europe or embraced or led, we were never a force for change within, we always haggled, whinged or demanded opt outs, we won't be missed.

Everyone I spoke to in Europe recently (as in ordinary people not politicians) said they will have to be hard on us to discourage others from opting out thinking that they'd get a deal on their terms. Makes sense plus the Germans and French (ridiculous generalisation I know) are likely to be vindictive - it's all down to history!!

 

[Two Professors]

You are such a wanker.

You Can't Count

Up Yours Too

You Thick Tosser

You Are Loser

Read Thread Title

You Oxygen Thief

 

[ArcticBlue]

What a load of clueless crap. You have no idea whether France will have the same vote any more than you know that we'll negotiate trade deals everyone is happy with, so cut the bullshit.

Many businesses within and outside of the EU make lots of money out of the UK economy. You can be sure that these businesses will want to maintain that. If companies within the EU start losing money because Brussels throw their toys out of their pram then lobbyists will be paying them a visit. Money is more important than politics, after all.

 

[Two Professors]

Never

You have just contacted your mobile supplier saying you are leaving on the basis of getting a lower cost and an upgrade and they have said fine and bye.
And you are at home waiting for a call to say they we would really like you to come back to us but your phone never rings

You've obviously never had a Vodafone contract!

 

[El Presidente]

Yes, and either we agree a set of regulations with the EU that allows trade, or we don't. If the EU don't give us a fair deal, we can make importing from the EU totally uneconomical, and the economies across Europe will plunge into recession. That's not what they want, so if that's their choice then of course they will offer us a fair deal. Free market, free movement of people, and we pay into the EU, much like we do now. That would be fair, it would work for both of us. If that's what we offer them and we accept no less, are you seriously suggesting they'll turn it down and forgo exporting to us?

They don't force exports on us.

We, as individual consumers, choose to buy their cars, precision machinery, wine, clothes and so on because it's a combination of better quality, greater reliability or lower price than is produced domestically.

Tariffs and/ or quotas might change that position. Part of the UK's weakness is that services, which are not covered by EU free trade deals with some non EU countries, account for 77% of our economy.

Time will tell.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Boris and Gove will negotiate access to the free market in return for freedom of movement.

They don't care about immigration, it was all about sovereignty and supremacy of British law for them.


Farage and his immigration issues will be totally sidelined, but he'll have his UK Independence so will have to keep banging his anti-immigration drum under a different banner.

Interesting points, although Gove has claimed he is not interested in the single market because he knows that can come only with free movement. I don't think there's a precedent for one without the other. (As it happens, I don't believe that Gove is necessarily against free movement himself - it chimes with his dry principles in the same way that it did with Margaret Thatcher's. The problem is, he and his colleagues made a huge thing about immigration because they knew it was a populist point-scorer - as NSC posters have shown - and they can't really go back on it now.)

 

[wellquickwoody]

we can make importing from the EU totally uneconomical

And they can do exactly the same to us. So, as one of 27 countries inside the EU, I can buy product at example price from many other countries, including low wage places from the former Soviet block, or I can buy from the UK. The UK prices are already higher due to higher labour costs, but I also have to pay import duty as the UK is outside of the EU, mmmmmmm, where is my Romanian/Bulgarian/Polish phone book?

 

[biddles911]

Yes, and either we agree a set of regulations with the EU that allows trade, or we don't. If the EU don't give us a fair deal, we can make importing from the EU totally uneconomical, and the economies across Europe will plunge into recession. That's not what they want, so if that's their choice then of course they will offer us a fair deal. Free market, free movement of people, and we pay into the EU, much like we do now. That would be fair, it would work for both of us. If that's what we offer them and we accept no less, are you seriously suggesting they'll turn it down and forgo exporting to us?

No reason they should forgo trading with us if we offer a free market, free movement of people and pay into the EU but I thought free movement of people is why the vast majority of Brexiteers wanted us to leave in the first place?

Anyone who seriously believes that we're likely to be financially better off without the EU wants their head examining.


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[Lincoln Imp]

So what if it's true, what's your point? They still need us.

My point was to counter the claim that they need us far more than we need them.

The original post on this thread suggested that the EU will be gagging to trade with us. They certainly will want to trade with us - we're very good customers - but we will need to trade with them even more.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

My point was to counter the claim that they need us far more than we need them.

The original post on this thread suggested that the EU will be gagging to trade with us. They certainly will want to trade with us - we're very good customers - but we will need to trade with them even more.

meanwhile efforts now go outwards toward China and India and wealth of other nations....to get raw material from and make our own..as well as trade.....Vietnam is up and coming these days too.

 

[jakarta]

No reason they should forgo trading with us if we offer a free market, free movement of people and pay into the EU

USA trades with the EU and does none of these - why should we?

 

[HitchinSeagull]

When you put any thought into it, that doesn't make sense. Yes, they will want to dissuade others from following us, so one thought might be to offer us a crap deal - then we say no. What next? The EU refuse to trade with us at all - Germany stop selling us their cars, the French stop selling us their wine? That would lead to the complete collapse of the EU.

If the EU don't want other countries to leave, they need to look at why we left - we left because the EU make non democratic decisions that are not in the interests of our country. The EU need to reform, and then others won't feel the need to leave.

I dont think the french wine industry or german car manufacturers losing profits will cause the collapse of the EU, I suspect the bedrock of our trade policy will be to bend over offering 0% corporation tax deals to encourage companys to locate here.

 

[portslade seagull]

Many businesses within and outside of the EU make lots of money out of the UK economy. You can be sure that these businesses will want to maintain that. If companies within the EU start losing money because Brussels throw their toys out of their pram then lobbyists will be paying them a visit. Money is more important than politics, after all.[/QUOTE

My point entirely. They will want to cut a deal

 

[biddles911]

FTSE down 3.15% at today's close. Hardly catastrophic. It's now at 6138, the same level it was at 1 week ago. Nobody has been wiped out today or even badly hit, unless they've got money in individual stocks such as the banks. The German and French markets have been much harder hit.

That's just one day! Wait till companies start pulling out, investment drops, unemployment rises, and possible (probable?) recession in the months/years of uncertainty to come.

You ain't seen nothing yet.....!


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[Sheebo]

Anyone know of any 'leave' voters who admit they made the wrong choice, given the admission the NHS thing was bullshit & possibly the instant uncertainty in the economy? Would genuinely be keen to know if there's any regretting already?

I don't get how you can say 'we're giving the £350mil to the NHS' and then say 'oh yeh that bit wasn't true' hours after winning?! Utterly bizarre & somewhat fraudulent...?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You Can't Count

Up Yours Too

You Thick Tosser

You Are Loser

Read Thread Title

You Oxygen Thief

Wanker.

 

[Triggaaar]

They don't force exports on us.

No one said they did.

We, as individual consumers, choose to buy their cars, precision machinery, wine, clothes and so on because it's a combination of better quality, greater reliability or lower price than is produced domestically.

Tariffs and/ or quotas might change that position.

And that is the entire point, I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Part of the UK's weakness is that services, which are not covered by EU free trade deals with some non EU countries, account for 77% of our economy.

Obviously services would have to be covered by our EU deal.

And they can do exactly the same to us.

Yes, of course. It is in both our interests to keep good trading relations.

So, as one of 27 countries inside the EU, I can buy product at example price from many other countries, including low wage places from the former Soviet block, or I can buy from the UK. The UK prices are already higher due to higher labour costs, but I also have to pay import duty as the UK is outside of the EU, mmmmmmm, where is my Romanian/Bulgarian/Polish phone book?

And if they made our goods subject to import duty, we'd do the same to their goods. So I can buy a car from the UK or Japan, or I can pay over the odds import duty and get it from Germany - mmmmmm, where is my Japanes phone book. Think I'll get my wine from Australia and Chile. What else do I need?

How can you not realise this works both ways?

No reason they should forgo trading with us if we offer a free market, free movement of people and pay into the EU

Perfect, yes please.

I thought free movement of people is why the vast majority of Brexiteers wanted us to leave in the first place?

Well none of us can really say 100% why each of us voted the way we did, but I'm sure that some wanted us to leave to stop the free movement - but 48% didn't want us to leave, so I'd confidently predict that more than 50% want the free movement of people to continue.

My point was to counter the claim that they need us far more than we need them.

The original post on this thread suggested that the EU will be gagging to trade with us. They certainly will want to trade with us - we're very good customers - but we will need to trade with them even more.

Yes I completely agree, I didn't take the OP seriously. But although I agree with you, I'm still sure that the EU need us so much that no trade with us (let's say 200% import duty on goods from the EU) that the EU would collapse, so we'd all be in the same boat.

I dont think the french wine industry or german car manufacturers losing profits will cause the collapse of the EU

We import so much that if we stopped it would cause a deeper recession than they've ever seen. Combined with being stuck in the Euro, their economies couldn't cope, and their publics would want out.

 

[biddles911]

USA trades with the EU and does none of these - why should we?

Because we'll face trade and tariff barriers which will make our exports much less attractive to the EU. The US export a far lower proportion to the EU than we do of course.

Wasn't actually my point though. I was responding to the comment that that was all we had to do to get a trade deal again with the EU. Seemed to me that that idea totally negated the reason we've voted out in the first place.


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[GT49er]

No. I branded some of those involved in guiding the leave campaign as racist among other things. Sadly a very few people hear their words and interpret them as extremes and allow it to influence their behaviour. A very few. Not all. One person took it to the extreme of murder. That is no reflection on anyone but him but I would hope that those who stirred up hatred as a means to an end will reflect that when we speak we can't take the words back nor can we know how they might be interpreted. I think the leaders of both sides should be ashamed of their intemperate behaviour but it was Leave, and Farage in particular, who deliberately sought to play the race card

One (mad and bad) person took it to the extreme of murder. A terrible thing - really, I mean sickening, an inexcusable event. But ALL the leaders of both campaigns pledged not to try to make any capital out of the deranged turd's wicked act. Perhaps you missed that bit.

 

[theboybilly]

It's pretty good. Canada has had their own economic problems but there seems to be a decent government. People just seem to be a lot happier here, I don't hear as much discontent about things. I'm on a student permit so I need to get PR sorted when I finish my master's, the sooner the better if everyone else starts coming here!

Is Canada in the EU?