[Politics] Brexit

[DavidinSouthampton]

I am an ardent remainer but the EU are such a bunch of intransigent ***** that I am now happy to leave with no deal. We’ll be fecked but so will they and the whole thing will implode for everyone. There doesn’t appear to be a solution so feck them let’s get out, we’ll suffer but so will they.

*cuts nose off to spite face*

Firstly, we will be a blooming sight more fecked than them.... and
Secondly, we are deliberately banging on about the “undemocratic” backstop, when it was us who asked for it in the first place, and everyone else except the leaders of our government apparently can see the Irish border question is very difficult and potentially dangerous.

Johnson and co are deliberately trying to show the EU as being intransigent when they are being entirely reasonable.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As an aside, has Boris’ father said anything about his mess of a son yet? I know his sister and brother have.

 

[Icy Gull]

Firstly, we will be a blooming sight more fecked than them.... and
Secondly, we are deliberately banging on about the “undemocratic” backstop, when it was us who asked for it in the first place, and everyone else except the leaders of our government apparently can see the Irish border question is very difficult and potentially dangerous.

Johnson and co are deliberately trying to show the EU as being intransigent when they are being entirely reasonable.

In the short term we are certainly more fecked but in the long term? I think not

 

[Lever]

In the short term we are certainly more fecked but in the long term? I think not[/QUOTE]

Written like a true Brexiter.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

In the short term we are certainly more fecked but in the long term? I think not

Why do you think not?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

It wasn’t long ago this was

1) The easiest deal in the world
2) Have our cake and eat it
3) They need us more than we need them.

So, what went wrong?

Nothing , we're still leaving
Get ready for Brexit and a failing German economy
regards
DF

 

[Icy Gull]

I think you are bright enough to know there is more than one 'reality' and by acceding to Johnston's 'reality' and blaming the EU you are doing what the hard Brexiters have been working towards for some time.

I am no fan of Johnson and I am not blaming the EU but how do you suggest we proceed? The EU took the piss out of May and how long do we string this out? Do you see a solution? Another referendum would make a mockery of democracy (however misguided, imo) and lead to even more division especially if we voted remain.

We are between a rock and a hard place and I’m yet to hear a convincing argument to string this out any longer. Do you have one?

 

[Hampster Gull]

The Tories-the Party of Chaos, Lies and Division are likely to win thanks to the ridiculous Fist Past the Post system we have. That and a few boundary changes here and there...

They have proven themselves to be exactly that. And Corbyn and his merry Momentum crew are Marxists who will do huge damage. As yo rightly say the FPTP system is not fit for purpose

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Why do you think not?

because he's a Patriot
Regards
DF

 

[Icy Gull]

Why do you think not?

You think the EU can cope with us leaving?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Nothing , we're still leaving
Get ready for Brexit and a failing German economy
regards
DF

You realise a failing German economy is bad for us right?

 

[Icy Gull]

In the short term we are certainly more fecked but in the long term? I think not[/QUOTE]

Written like a true Brexiter.

I am in no way a Brexiter, I think it is madness to leave but what other options are there now?

PLEASE give me your thoughts on how we should be proceeding?

 

[birthofanorange]

You realise a failing German economy is bad for us right?

He doesn't even realise when he's soiled himself.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I know but sometimes you just have to face reality, the EU appear to be making absolutely no concessions so feck ‘em

I’ve had enough of this shit and stringing it out any longer with no hope of any sort of resolution to suit them and us is madness.

As a remainer you're not the only one with your opinions as you say no point in dragging it out any longer
Unfortunately we have # team EU die hards clinging on like shit to a Blanket
Regards
DF

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

You realise a failing German economy is bad for us right?

Short term pain for long term gain, chin up
regards
DF

 

[vegster]

I am no fan of Johnson and I am not blaming the EU but how do you suggest we proceed? The EU took the piss out of May and how long do we string this out? Do you see a solution? Another referendum would make a mockery of democracy (however misguided, imo) and lead to even more division especially if we voted remain.

We are between a rock and a hard place and I’m yet to hear a convincing argument to string this out any longer. Do you have one?

May and a small cabal in No.10 took it upon themselves to decide the red lines before the negotiations started. maybe, just maybe, if we had some kind of debate about what we wanted from the deal with the EU before we started we might have got somewhere collectively as a government and a country. May trapped herself in red lines with little or no room to manoeuvre when the negotiations took place.

The EU certainly did not take the piss out of her, she did that herself with her inability to communicate other than by repeated soundbites and dancing on stage at the Tory party conference, the set disintegrating behind her as her voice failed during her " keynote " speech and by being shown up by people in the street as unable to communicate or engage with the electorate.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I am no fan of Johnson and I am not blaming the EU but how do you suggest we proceed? The EU took the piss out of May and how long do we string this out? Do you see a solution? Another referendum would make a mockery of democracy (however misguided, imo) and lead to even more division especially if we voted remain.

We are between a rock and a hard place and I’m yet to hear a convincing argument to string this out any longer. Do you have one?

The convincing argument is that where we currently are couldn't have been known 3 years ago. The detail we have from May's negotiations, from Johnson's negotiations, what the impact willl be on the UK, specifically Northern Ireland is now clear. The difference between a soft exit remaining in the Customs Union and Single Market compared to a hard exit couldn't be more stark.

Instead of Project Fear, we have closer to Project Facts. Informed decisions can be made on what your vote will actually do to the United Kingdom. Democracy gives people the power to change their minds. It doesn't make a mockery at all to ask again, only if you fear a different answer. If leaving the EU is the will of the British people, presented first with the idea of leaving the EU, then with the detail of what that will look like, how can that not be democratic?

 

[Lever]

I am no fan of Johnson and I am not blaming the EU but how do you suggest we proceed? The EU took the piss out of May and how long do we string this out? Do you see a solution? Another referendum would make a mockery of democracy (however misguided, imo) and lead to even more division especially if we voted remain.

We are between a rock and a hard place and I’m yet to hear a convincing argument to string this out any longer. Do you have one?

Sorry but the language you use gives you away; I don't think anyone has a solution but we need to find a compromise that we can all live with.
I think that you are being disingenuous to describe yourself formally as an ardent Remainer since (apparently out of sheer frustration....) you have altered your position. Speaking of changing our minds, Conservative MPs have been doing it in droves over the past weeks.... so why are voters prohibited from showing that they have too?

 

[birthofanorange]

The convincing argument is that where we currently are couldn't have been known 3 years ago. The detail we have from May's negotiations, from Johnson's negotiations, what the impact willl be on the UK, specifically Northern Ireland is now clear. The difference between a soft exit remaining in the Customs Union and Single Market compared to a hard exit couldn't be more stark.

Instead of Project Fear, we have closer to Project Facts. Informed decisions can be made on what your vote will actually do to the United Kingdom. Democracy gives people the power to change their minds. It doesn't make a mockery at all to ask again, only if you fear a different answer. If leaving the EU is the will of the British people, presented first with the idea of leaving the EU, then with the detail of what that will look like, how can that not be democratic?

Spot on.

 

[Icy Gull]

The convincing argument is that where we currently are couldn't have been known 3 years ago. The detail we have from May's negotiations, from Johnson's negotiations, what the impact willl be on the UK, specifically Northern Ireland is now clear. The difference between a soft exit remaining in the Customs Union and Single Market compared to a hard exit couldn't be more stark.

Instead of Project Fear, we have closer to Project Facts. Informed decisions can be made on what your vote will actually do to the United Kingdom. Democracy gives people the power to change their minds. It doesn't make a mockery at all to ask again, only if you fear a different answer. If leaving the EU is the will of the British people, presented first with the idea of leaving the EU, then with the detail of what that will look like, how can that not be democratic?

Letting us vote on this with no real understanding of the consequences was a massive feck up, but we did and however reasonable another referendum, for the reasons you give, would be it would result in fighting in the streets, should the vote be for remain.