[Politics] Brexit

[beorhthelm]

So it seems Boris Johnson doesn't understand how the EU works even now

as amusing as this would be, it surmises those briefing and advising him also do not know, or haven't briefed him. bit of a stretch. apart from the point about the scope for negotiation, where a collective denial seems likely. lets remember the EU is playing the game too.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Mouldy, I am fine with a bit of disruption sometimes. I lived in a shithole of a house at uni to save some money, I moved country to take an internship and leave a sector that could have seen me progress upwards, and I also left a well paid job to start my own business and live off the few hundred it made a month for 3 years until I started to turn a profit. So I like to think I'm your ideal target audience here.

My question is: I'm willing to tighten the belt, prepare and take risks if I believe in something. Why should I believe? I've really never seen any evidence that Brexit will improve things dramatically for me or (as a soon to be new father) my kids. It really does seem like a blind guess to me that things will improve beyond the progress we could have made within the EU. I tried to engage with both sides pre-referendum and although the remain campaign left a lot to be desired the leave campaign was simply based on no evidence.

So I'm happy to make some sacrifices but someone has to give me a good reason first.

Rodders, you have just put over the best and most reasonable question on this thread to a leaver to date.

You appear to be a mirror image of myself, creative, entrepreneurial, prepared to get stuck in and get dirty and you live within your means and your probably younger!

To answer your question is IMO, you really need to believe in yourself, you will adapt if needed, we can never change all the outside influences and that is why no one can tell you what the promised land looks like as they don't know, think that the UK will be breaking new ground just like Christopher Columbus.

But remember we were here 40+ years ago it's become a stale marriage, they don't like us they just put up with us for our money.

All the best on your first newborn, you will fight like a warrior to protect and provide for them and your family, it's pure instinct and us humans thrive on it.

 

[WATFORD zero]

as amusing as this would be, it surmises those briefing and advising him also do not know, or haven't briefed him. bit of a stretch. apart from the point about the scope for negotiation, where a collective denial seems likely. lets remember the EU is playing the game too.

Detailed Briefs are always prepared for all Ministers. Whether they read them or not is their decision. It's common knowledge that Johnson was notorious for not reading them (as bad as Davis), but I'm guessing that since he's become PM, has has a lot more time and has changed this habit of a lifetime.

Incidentally, Raab always reads his, which makes the Dover thing really strange

 

[schmunk]

Detailed Briefs are always prepared for all Ministers.

I imagine BoJo is detailing his briefs at the looming spectre of having to u-turn on his 31 October promise...

 

[A1X]

[TWEET]1174247065246978048[/TWEET]

 

[Westdene Seagull]

750 unicorns, one for each trade arrangement that we are giving up the day we leave ? That's about one every working day for the next 3 years. I assume that even though we haven't seen anything mentioned about it, we have recruited hundreds more trained and experienced trade negotiators over the last 3 years as part of our 'no deal' preparations. Maybe we headhunted them from the EU, as they have the largest pool of experienced trade negotiators of any trading bloc

Firstly you make the sweeping implication that all 750 'unicorns' are the same - they are not. The UK only has 40 FTAs via the EU - you know, the big ones like Canada. The rest are bi-lateral agreements - generally created for specific goods. For example that we'll accept lamb from New Zealand if they accept our pork. Bi-lateral agreements shouldn't take too long to roll over from what we already have. I'll accept FTAs might take some time - but not the ridiculous 300 years that has been thrown around by some remainers.

And of course you conveniently fail to mention the 38 rollover deals we've already got signed - two very significant ones - one with Norway ( worth £30bn ) and one with Switzerland ( worth £32bn ). Accounting for around 5% of UK trade. But of course this doesn't fit with your doomsday narrative.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Even in a mammoth thread, chock full of utter crap, that is a statement worthy of special attention. What a pathetic, ignorant thing to claim.

Remain voters with no love of their country, or ‘connection to it’ (what does that even mean?) would just sulk and carry on, as best they could, in the face of this government’s illegitimate, catastrophic course of action.

Those who care deeply about the country (ALL of it, by the way - you know - the Union?) are refusing to give up without doing everything they legally and democratically can, to minimise the damage.

This assumption that Brexiteers are the only true patriots is a recurring one, an important prop to the people who make it. Footy Genius had a crack at it the other day, going on about the 'true loyalties' of remainers. They remind me of a dear friend, a lady in her 70s who two or three weeks ago watched HMS Queen Elizabeth leave Portsmouth Harbour and then rushed round to our house to proclaim the joys of Brexit. Walking in front of Buckingham Palace has the same effect on her. We don't argue. Brexit, God, St George, Terry Wogan... unless you worship before them you're not really an Englishman at all.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

It's a landmark day today for The NSC Brexit Thread, as we'll break the 100,000 post mark shortly. As of a little while ago this was the league table for posters on the thread with 1000+ posts on it.

Pretty pink fairy - Posts 3,553
Two Professors - Posts 3,446
The Clamp - Posts 3,445
pastafarian - Posts 3,360
Herr Tubthumper - Posts 3,351
JC Footy Genius - Posts 3,329
ManOfSussex - Posts 3,327
Baldseagull - Posts 3,212
Thunder Bolt - Posts 2,782
WATFORD zero - Posts 2,776
nicko31 - Posts 2,660
Lincoln Imp - Posts 2,376
Westdene Seagull - Posts 2,221
beorhthelm - Posts 1,638
GT49er - Posts 1,574
Plooks - Posts 1,526
Soulman - Posts 1,486
portslade seagull - Posts 1,343
bashlsdir - Posts 1,239
Hampster Gull - Posts 1,219
Garry Nelson's teacher - Posts 1,139
The Rivet - Posts 1,070
Blue Valkyrie - Posts 1,038

Not even 300 posts for me, but I could have said it in 1 post.

Have some standards and principles and take it on the chin when you lose.
It's a public disgrace that it has even got this far and the money that has been wasted by these people is unreal, shame on them.

This country will be a sad case the day we change laws to suit the minority to dictate to the majority of voters.

Oh, it has.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Not even 300 posts for me, but I could have said it in 1 post.

Have some standards and principles and take it on the chin when you lose.
It's a public disgrace that it has even got this far and the money that has been wasted by these people is unreal, shame on them.

This country will be a sad case the day we change laws to suit the minority to dictate to the majority of voters.

Oh, it has.

300+ posts of nothing but jingoistic rhetoric drivel.

Seriously, the ****ing STATE of this:

To answer your question is IMO, you really need to believe in yourself, you will adapt if needed, we can never change all the outside influences and that is why no one can tell you what the promised land looks like as they don't know, think that the UK will be breaking new ground just like Christopher Columbus.

 

[daveinplzen]

Firstly you make the sweeping implication that all 750 'unicorns' are the same - they are not. The UK only has 40 FTAs via the EU - you know, the big ones like Canada. The rest are bi-lateral agreements - generally created for specific goods. For example that we'll accept lamb from New Zealand if they accept our pork. Bi-lateral agreements shouldn't take too long to roll over from what we already have. I'll accept FTAs might take some time - but not the ridiculous 300 years that has been thrown around by some remainers.

And of course you conveniently fail to mention the 38 rollover deals we've already got signed - two very significant ones - one with Norway ( worth £30bn ) and one with Switzerland ( worth £32bn ). Accounting for around 5% of UK trade. But of course this doesn't fit with your doomsday narrative.

'Norway, and Switzerland are EEA members of the European Union anyway.Taking them out would reduce the total really signed as new agreements by £64 billion, leaving less than £30 billion of new deals signed up in replacement of £289 billion'

 

[Lincoln Imp]

There is no question that we will go through a 2-3 year period of difficulty, most people accept that. Lets wait and see what develops beyond that, once internal taxation changes are made, business re-investment is underway and some prices are different at retail level. Its a waiting game but its not necessarily all negative.

We've had recessions and downturns and calamities before but for me Brexit is not about economic harm. It goes so much deeper than that. It's about the sort of country we want to be, its values and priorities and its role in the world.

If it was just about prices and internal taxation and the rest most people would have shrugged their shoulders and moved on three years ago, just like they do when the party they don't like wins an election.

 

[ManOfSussex]

as amusing as this would be, it surmises those briefing and advising him also do not know, or haven't briefed him. bit of a stretch. apart from the point about the scope for negotiation, where a collective denial seems likely. lets remember the EU is playing the game too.

I recall Professor Steven Woolcock of The LSE saying over 2 years ago: "At a political level there is still no recognition of the difficulties."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...o-harmful-trade-deals-cr7bqww8g?region=global

2 years later on or not, looking at the likes of Johnson and all the other clueless, arrogant idiots in cabinet now, I don't see this as a stretch at all.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

This assumption that Brexiteers are the only true patriots is a recurring one, an important prop to the people who make it. Footy Genius had a crack at it the other day, going on about the 'true loyalties' of remainers. They remind me of a dear friend, a lady in her 70s who two or three weeks ago watched HMS Queen Elizabeth leave Portsmouth Harbour and then rushed round to our house to proclaim the joys of Brexit. Walking in front of Buckingham Palace has the same effect on her. We don't argue. Brexit, God, St George, Terry Wogan... unless you worship before them you're not really an Englishman at all.

As a veteran, I despair sometimes of the complete drivel I read from people of my generation, until I joined a group who call themselves Veterans for Europe, and realised I am not alone.
Yes, I've served and also worked for the Crown, but have been told I am unpatriotic.
I wasn't told that when I marched past the Cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday, but somehow that then makes me a traitor!

It is a cult, and people have been bewitched somehow.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But remember we were here 40+ years ago it's become a stale marriage, they don't like us they just put up with us for our money.

When was the last time you spoke to one of 'them'? Maybe it is you they don't like?

Seriously, I've found people on the continent very sad at what is happening in Britain at the moment. You may think it is due to money, but it really isn't.

 

[daveinplzen]

As a veteran, I despair sometimes of the complete drivel I read from people of my generation, until I joined a group who call themselves Veterans for Europe, and realised I am not alone.
Yes, I've served and also worked for the Crown, but have been told I am unpatriotic.
I wasn't told that when I marched past the Cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday, but somehow that then makes me a traitor!

It is a cult, and people have been bewitched somehow.

Quite often get the impression that the person calling me a traitor has done nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing for the country. Dosnt particularly worry me, more amuses if anything.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

When was the last time you spoke to one of 'them'? Maybe it is you they don't like?

Seriously, I've found people on the continent very sad at what is happening in Britain at the moment. You may think it is due to money, but it really isn't.

Absolutely this. I had a conversation with someone who lives in Italy a couple of weeks ago who said exactly that, particularly because of the RESPECT we have been held in for decades!

 

[daveinplzen]

When was the last time you spoke to one of 'them'? Maybe it is you they don't like?

Seriously, I've found people on the continent very sad at what is happening in Britain at the moment. You may think it is due to money, but it really isn't.

When meeting new people here, one of the first things im asked is, what do I think of Brexit. Most Czechs ive spoken to are amazed at what we are doing to ourselves as a country, the only exception being my English (Brexiteer) boss's Czech wife.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

When was the last time you spoke to one of 'them'? Maybe it is you they don't like?

Seriously, I've found people on the continent very sad at what is happening in Britain at the moment. You may think it is due to money, but it really isn't.

Blimey, I have upset the whole of EU, I suppose it's possible but I doubt it!!

I am sure some are sad about us going, but they should have given May a better deal, but that's water under the bridge.

At the end of the day, we will still communicate with them we just don't want to jump on them in bed, they have rejected our advances far too often and ganged up upon us within their friend's circle.

It's just Au Revoir, so they need not be saddened.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Quite often get the impression that the person calling me a traitor has done nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing for the country. Dosnt particularly worry me, more amuses if anything.

Yes, one or two have been found out as Walts.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Blimey, I have upset the whole of EU, I suppose it's possible but I doubt it!!

I am sure some are sad about us going, but they should have given May a better deal, but that's water under the bridge.

At the end of the day, we will still communicate with them we just don't want to jump on them in bed, they have rejected our advances far too often and ganged up upon us within their friend's circle.

It's just Au Revoir, so they need not be saddened.

They should have given May a better deal? Oh boy. They gang up on us? Oh dear.

Who are you going to blame after Brexit?