[Politics] Brexit

[Sussex Nomad]

Reduced to sneering rather than arguing your case already? Oh okay then....

No sneer, I just abide by our democratic rights.

 

[Notters]

At the end of the day we will see Brexit through, whether the non democratic minority love it or not. So get on with your lives and adjust.

Minority

 

[Sussex Nomad]

When we have an election, we vote a party in, love it or hate it, no-one disagrees. We have a referendum, a vote, on leaving the EU, suddenly the democracy is wrong because the remainers lost. When you lose a vote and don't agree with democracy you therefore become a totalitarian. You will not accept the will of the people. You have thrown democracy out of the window. The remain vote lost, get over it.

 

[Lever]

No sneer, I just abide by our democratic rights.

Then you will accept that the majority of voters do not wish to leave without a deal - and a deal has yet to be identified that meets your criteria i.e. abides by our democratic rights.

 

[Lever]

When we have an election, we vote a party in, love it or hate it, no-one disagrees. We have a referendum, a vote, on leaving the EU, suddenly the democracy is wrong because the remainers lost. When you lose a vote and don't agree with democracy you therefore become a totalitarian. You will not accept the will of the people. You have thrown democracy out of the window. The remain vote lost, get over it.

...and what did you win?
I think your view that 'democracy is wrong because the remainers lost' is the view of many angry leavers and not a matter of fact but opinion. If the process is fair and people are fully aware of the implications of the choices then fair enough. But in neither case was that true.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

...and what did you win?

Who is 'you'? I vote for democracy and you have none of those ideals.

 

[Knocky's Nose]

When we have an election, we vote a party in, love it or hate it, no-one disagrees. We have a referendum, a vote, on leaving the EU, suddenly the democracy is wrong because the remainers lost. When you lose a vote and don't agree with democracy you therefore become a totalitarian. You will not accept the will of the people. You have thrown democracy out of the window. The remain vote lost, get over it.

Probably covered a thousand times, but with respect - the public had sod all idea of the ramifications.. They were shown smoke and mirrors, fed half truths and lies, and had little sense of what would happen at the end of it. Now the facts are crystal clear, the liars have been outed, the 'leave' side have been proven to have broken electoral rules, and we are all well aware of what the outcome holds for us, why not let people now vote with their eyes wide open. Surely that's fair? Then, armed with ALL the facts, if we STILL vote to leave - who can argue?

Also, and you cannot deny this, the politicians have changed their stances, changed their allegiances, and even outright changed their minds on Brexit - so why is it one rule for them, and one rule for the public? If they can change their minds, why can't we?

 

[Berty23]

When we have an election, we vote a party in, love it or hate it, no-one disagrees. We have a referendum, a vote, on leaving the EU, suddenly the democracy is wrong because the remainers lost. When you lose a vote and don't agree with democracy you therefore become a totalitarian. You will not accept the will of the people. You have thrown democracy out of the window. The remain vote lost, get over it.

What did leave mean when you voted? Did it mean leave with a deal (as you were told would be easy) or did it mean no deal which is what no one said would happen so was not being voted on. Or did you vote to leave no matter what it meant? What if leaving meant giving 10k to everyone who voted remain as a sorry? It sounds daft doesn’t it but that is no different to the nonsense we hear now.

 

[Gwylan]

The remainers are divided, the Brexit people aren't.

The Ashcroft poll I posted says the exact opposite. Remainers want to remain: Leave voters are split between those who want no deal, those who want May's deal and those who want another deal.

I didn't quite understand this! Still a bit puzzled after reading it. It says "Among all those voting in the European elections, 50 per cent said they had voted to Remain in the referendum and 45 per cent to Leave; now, 50 per cent said they wanted to leave, 46 per cent said they wanted to remain, and 4 per cent didn’t know." Not sure how this can be the case when the majority vote was for remain parties.

As the poll makes clear, there's not a clear delineation between the parties' point of view and the voters - there could be Leave voters who voted Green for example (I should know, I was one).

Also, there are 5% who didn't vote in the referendum - assuming these are new voters, they tend overwhelmingly to vote Remain

I was also puzzled by the fact that 2% of Brexit Party voters said that they had made their minds up who to vote for more than 6 months ago. The Brexit Party was only formed 6 weeks ago - so that's impossible. Just goes to show how little faith you can really put in what people tell pollsters!

That's quite simple to explain: that's a Farage personal vote. What they mean is that six months ago they'd made their mind up to vote for NF's party

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Probably covered a thousand times, but with respect - the public had sod all idea of the ramifications.. They were shown smoke and mirrors, fed half truths and lies, and had little sense of what would happen at the end of it. Now the facts are clear, why not let people now vote with their eyes wide open.

Also, and you cannot deny this, the politicians have changed their stances, changed their allegiances, and even outright changed their minds on Brexit - so why is it one rule for them, and one rule for the public? If they can change their minds, why can't we?

The ramifications is the lack of Government to see through the people's vote. They never expected to lose and now we have 650 people doing our bidding for the country, and let's face it, they can't. Thick and clueless.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

What did leave mean when you voted? Did it mean leave with a deal (as you were told would be easy) or did it mean no deal which is what no one said would happen so was not being voted on. Or did you vote to leave no matter what it meant? What if leaving meant giving 10k to everyone who voted remain as a sorry? It sounds daft doesn’t it but that is no different to the nonsense we hear now.

What part of yes or no don't you get? That was our choice.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

The Ashcroft poll I posted says the exact opposite. Remainers want to remain: Leave voters are split between those who want no deal, those who want May's deal and those who want another deal.

What parties were they split between? Brexit Party won seats on a solid platform. Remain were split between Lib Dem, Greens and Labour. Where did Brexit people split their vote?

 

[Lever]

Who is 'you'? I vote for democracy and you have none of those ideals.

No offence intended. By 'you' I mean a leave voter. What have you won? I can understand why you feel frustrated but there really is no clear majority amongst Leavers about the 'best' form of Brexit.... and most voters want to remain according to the EU election.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

No offence intended. By 'you' I mean a leave voter. What have you won?

Sorry I still don't know who 'you' is.

 

[Knocky's Nose]

Thick and clueless.

Like the voting public were when they voted to leave, because they had no idea what they were voting for...

I laugh my arse off when I hear stories of people voting to leave because "those bloody foreigners are taking our jobs..." and they wish to ensure they remain employed by ejecting people who would ultimately compete (and win) in the race for their future employment.

The very same people who voted leave are now unemployed because their companies went bust, due to them voting leave.

Cocks.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

That's quite simple to explain: that's a Farage personal vote. What they mean is that six months ago they'd made their mind up to vote for NF's party

Absolute slur on normal working people going about their normal life and not liking who you like. You should be totally ashamed of yourself. Sort of sh*t you'd expect from some that cannot accept a defeat.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Like the voting public were when they voted to leave, because they had no idea what they were voting for...

I laugh my arse off when I hear stories of people voting to leave because "those bloody foreigners are taking our jobs..." and they wish to ensure they remain employed by ejecting people who would ultimately compete (and win) in the race for their future employment.

The very same people who voted leave are now unemployed because their companies went bust, due to them voting leave.

Cocks.

The racist card, it's all you hear from remainers.

 

[Justice]

Like the voting public were when they voted to leave, because they had no idea what they were voting for...

I laugh my arse off when I hear stories of people voting to leave because "those bloody foreigners are taking our jobs..." and they wish to ensure they remain employed by ejecting people who would ultimately compete (and win) in the race for their future employment.

The very same people who voted leave are now unemployed because their companies went bust, due to them voting leave.

Cocks.

What are these companies going bust as a direct result of something that hasn’t happened yet?

 

[Hampster Gull]

Probably covered a thousand times, but with respect - the public had sod all idea of the ramifications.. They were shown smoke and mirrors, fed half truths and lies, and had little sense of what would happen at the end of it. Now the facts are crystal clear, the liars have been outed, the 'leave' side have been proven to have broken electoral rules, and we are all well aware of what the outcome holds for us, why not let people now vote with their eyes wide open. Surely that's fair? Then, armed with ALL the facts, if we STILL vote to leave - who can argue?

Also, and you cannot deny this, the politicians have changed their stances, changed their allegiances, and even outright changed their minds on Brexit - so why is it one rule for them, and one rule for the public? If they can change their minds, why can't we?

You’re right.

The only way this doesn’t pan out is if the Tories steam roller a hard Brexit to pander to the extremists and to their long term detriment. We are not a far right country

 

[DumLum]

Surely doing some research would have been better to make an informed choice? I try not to be condescending or talk down to others, but on here some things that have been said are so blatantly untrue it's difficult not to sound that way.

There are no facts to research though? Just opinions?

I have to ask, if you voted again, purely on the people you would be standing with, would it be Leave or Remain?

I would vote leave but not Farage. Remainers calling all brexiters racists shows ignorance on their side. I also think taking no deal off the table lacks common sense in negotiations and now makes it more likely.

I get what you are saying but it seems that your vote (like many other people's) is guided by your emotions rather than argument and evidence. I think emotions have now taken over from reason - and that's not good.

I agree. Not good at all. True for both sides though.