[Politics] Brexit

[Dave the OAP]

Wow.

Wow indeed

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

She also said that she wasn't taking the case to court for her own publicity and that if/once she won she would back out of the debate. She also said she wasn't trying to stop Brexit. Strangely, since winning her court case, she has appeared on numerous TV and radio shows supporting remaining. She's a it of a liar to say the least. Now, without using Google, name the person that also took the legal action with her, the person that truely did it to ensure the government stuck to the law, the person that really didn't then become a publicity hoare ?

I have to say, you really do dwell on rather tenuous issues. In the grand scheme of things whether or not Gina Miller appears on tv is of little consequence to anyone. And from an earlier post, what Bellotti and Baker did 20 odd years ago has little bearing on the Lib Dems as a party today.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

From sheer bloody common sense. It is FACT that no one knows what the public at large really feel. Forget opinion polls, you only know after polling closes.

Not got anything “important” to do today?

 

[Baldseagull]

I think your post is correct but it brings another argument up that is one that has bothered me for years about the EU. I was never in favour of such a close relationship where our economies and institutions were so tightly bound. It is a major flaw that a country should find such difficulty in leaving the EU, it's design is at fault, we are largely to blame for not opposing greater integration more.

The great difficulty is coming from our treaty with Ireland, the EU is just saying it can't agree to anything that breaches that treaty that involves one of it's members, it is the EU saying we respect the sovereignty of the UK and Ireland, so we can't agree to anything that would override the treaty decision the two of you came to. UK negotiators then came up with the backstop, as a way of moving forward with negotiations, the EU agreed to that. It really is not the EU making this impossible, it was never going to be easy, but we have not even got to the part where the EU is going to be difficult.

 

[Triggaaar]

I didn't say it did, I was quoting a line from The Vote Leave manifesto in 2016 which you quoted and which I'm sure you knew was completely wrong at the time etc. etc.

What? I didn't quote the Vote Leave manifesto, you did. You said leaving without a deal wasn't an option, because of what the Vote Leave campaign said, and I've simply pointed out that what they said isn't enshrined in law. Leaving without a deal is an option. A bad one, IMO, but still an option. It's also an option to remain part of the Single Market, and not take back control of our borders, but I don't suppose the Vote Leave campaign were pushing that either.

 

[Baldseagull]

You are one of the most entrenched people I have read on here. One part from Trig for a justification. My point is so simple, there were many remain posters who stated a no deal would not hurt the EU much.

For the record i did not say that the EU had ever wanted a no deal.

But Trig did, and you jumped in, if you didn't know what position you were defending, that is your mistake, not Watfords

 

[Westdene Seagull]

And from an earlier post, what Bellotti and Baker did 20 odd years ago has little bearing on the Lib Dems as a party today.

You missed off LDC and a certain council leader ( Lib Dem ) trying get an NSC poster arrested ! Besides, I swore then I would never vote Lib Dem again ( I had in my student years ) and I intend to honour that ...... if only our politicians could honour what they say eh ?

Now if you wish to vote for a party that had members that literally tried to destroy the Albion ( mostly with lies ) then that's for you to deal with.

 

[Baldseagull]

Six out of ten Labour MPs represent constituencies where the electorate voted to Leave.

Are those six out of ten Labour MPs representing their constituents by voting in favour of a deal to Leave? No. They are doing all they can to have a "Peoples" vote or revoke Art 50. They are putting their personal wishes and preferences above those of the constituents they represent. Those MPs deserve to be deselected.

And I'm now beginning to think that the Arch ReMAYner has been doing all she can from the outset to scupper Brexit.

Are you sure that their constituents would not rather remain than have whats on offer?

 

[Triggaaar]

So because they were not the government, and would never become the government, that was the reason why the Leave Campaign could say whatever they wanted. There was never any obligation to actually do what they said, for it to be implementable in any shape or form, or for it to be factually correct ?

That explains a lot

Pretty much. With a General Election, parties give a manifesto which they are supposed to try and carry out if they get elected. They don't actually have to carry out their manifesto, but it would look bad on them if they don't, and there's a good chance they'd lose power at the next GE. That's not the case with a one off referendum, and both sides are able to get away with a lot more bullshit. We weren't going to be at war if we left the EU, our security wasn't going to suddenly become at risk. We also weren't going to be spending another £350m a week on the NHS if we chose to leave. This isn't breaking news.

And saying that leaving without a deal wasn't possible, because the Vote Leave campaign said we'd negotiate a deal, is either naive or disingenuous.

 

[golddene]

Stop Press.....Grammar and spelling check desperately required.

Honestly Mo, that's desperate! If you cannot read through Blu 3's post and not understand or decipher what his message is without resorting to criticism then no amount of spell checking or grammar will help.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

What? I didn't quote the Vote Leave manifesto, you did. You said leaving without a deal wasn't an option, because of what the Vote Leave campaign said, and I've simply pointed out that what they said isn't enshrined in law. Leaving without a deal is an option. A bad one, IMO, but still an option. It's also an option to remain part of the Single Market, and not take back control of our borders, but I don't suppose the Vote Leave campaign were pushing that either.

Not since Monday when the Queen gave Royal Assent to a Bill of Parliament which makes it law.

 

[Worthing exile]

So it appears we are heading towards an election of MEPs I have read several comments where individuals have said they will not be voting I on the other hand think in light of the fact the Government can not get. Mrs Mays deal through Parliament and that they appear to be completely against returning the question to the people, then the European election by de facto will become the unofficial people's vote with Nigal Fararges flat earth society on one side of the argument and maybe the Indipendant Group on the other?

I would rather leave this MEP Election to the Remainers with the Leavers either abstaining or spoiling their papers. After all we don't want it. It would be interesting to see how many people would be bothered to vote for someone.

 

[Triggaaar]

So it appears we are heading towards an election of MEPs I have read several comments where individuals have said they will not be voting I on the other hand think in light of the fact the Government can not get. Mrs Mays deal through Parliament and that they appear to be completely against returning the question to the people, then the European election by de facto will become the unofficial people's vote with Nigal Fararges flat earth society on one side of the argument and maybe the Indipendant Group on the other?

Indeed - I wouldn't normally care about our choice of MEP, but I'll be voting this time.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

If you mean TIG, the Independent Group, I think we all better wait and see how many of them have future careers as MP's. Some may be de-selected, suffer votes of no confidence or get defeated in by-elections. At the moment, they are carrying on, regardless of the fact that they are now representing a party that none of their constituents voted for.

There is no constitutional requirement for a by-election when an MP resigns from a party.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

The great difficulty is coming from our treaty with Ireland, the EU is just saying it can't agree to anything that breaches that treaty that involves one of it's members, it is the EU saying we respect the sovereignty of the UK and Ireland, so we can't agree to anything that would override the treaty decision the two of you came to. UK negotiators then came up with the backstop, as a way of moving forward with negotiations, the EU agreed to that. It really is not the EU making this impossible, it was never going to be easy, but we have not even got to the part where the EU is going to be difficult.

Without the backstop problem, it is likely we'd have already left. So yes, it's very problematic.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I would rather leave this MEP Election to the Remainers with the Leavers either abstaining or spoiling their papers. After all we don't want it. It would be interesting to see how many people would be bothered to vote for someone.

If Leavers don't vote, they cannot complain about the results. It's a bit self defeating for them. They'll even have two parties to vote for.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

But Trig did, and you jumped in, if you didn't know what position you were defending, that is your mistake, not Watfords

Nope, I wasn't defending Trig's point although his political view is more similar to mine, I 'jumped' in as previously expressed views from remainers on this forum were relevant.

 

[Worthing exile]

If Leavers don't vote, they cannot complain about the results. It's a bit self defeating for them. They'll even have two parties to vote for.

But the result is pointless because we are leaving.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Three million EU citizens were told they would be ok. Then they were told they would have to apply for settled status, which would be easy peasy.
I have already highlighted cases where this is causing lots of problems.

Now the Home Office is 'apologising' for an 'administrative error' for 'accidentally sharing the applicants email addresses. Yeah right.

Who can trust this government any more?

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-eu-citizens-email-addresses?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

[Baldseagull]

She also said that she wasn't taking the case to court for her own publicity and that if/once she won she would back out of the debate. She also said she wasn't trying to stop Brexit. Strangely, since winning her court case, she has appeared on numerous TV and radio shows supporting remaining. She's a it of a liar to say the least. Now, without using Google, name the person that also took the legal action with her, the person that truely did it to ensure the government stuck to the law, the person that really didn't then become a publicity hoare ?

You mean the one who has white skin and is male, and did not get half as much attention as the black woman from the press from the outset. I really don't think she enjoyed the attention she was getting early on, luckily for her there were others that needed branding as traitiors, the judiciary, MP's, and now even the Queen.