[Politics] Brexit

[The Clamp]

1st of June and we could be out on a no deal
regards
DR

More likely to get revoked. But both are pretty unlikely.

 

[daveinplzen]

you carry on living in your EU utopia world, DON'T START GRIZZLING when it all comes crashing down around your ears
regards
DR

I wont be grizzling. I have British passport... I have Czech permanent residency. Im fine thanks.
In fact, with those documents, Im just like some of the leading Brexiteers, who are rushing to make
sure they are safe from any Brexit catastrophe.
Its idiots like you my precious nitwit, who will be grizzling.

 

[Mental Lental]

Sorry but I see an openly pro Palestinian, pro Irish Republican as extremist on the left and you only have to look at what's happening to the local Labour party to see that Momentum are taking over in Brighton and Hove.

If you’d rather see a Tory representing Hove in parliament than vote for Labour, I can totally empathise with your position.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I am referring to the sentiment. I agree that the opinion has been expressed at length that a no deal would be worse for Britain. It doesn't mean there haven't been loads of posts that have expressed that a no deal would not hurt the EU much.

Hang about.

The first post was that posters were saying the EU wanted a 'no deal'.

Then your post was that lots of remain posters were saying 'no deal' wouldn't matter to the EU

Then your next post you're saying that remain posters were saying it wouldn't hurt the EU much

Then, Well they didn't actually say that, it's the sentiment

You are rowing backwards faster than Steve Redgrave in the Severn Bore

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

I agree with all of this.

Another six month extension has been proposed with the EU pleading with the UK to use it wisely. You know what? Absolutely nothing is going to change in that six months. Why? Because the real problem is that absolutely nobody in the Commons is incentivized to compromise. Until the "treachery" rhetoric is toned down by those on the right so that the front bench can feel they can modify their red lines, and until Labour have some guarantees that nobody in government is going to rip up any sort of deal, what can possibly change?

I think the public have a role to play in this too. Those supporting leave need to accept that a compromise must be made - they won by a paper-thin majority that is arguably no longer there. Consequently, that means a soft Brexit is the only plausible outcome and no amount of lying by the likes of IDS and John Redwood - both telling TV interviewers barefaced lies that the majority of the public want a no deal Brexit - is going to change that. Equally, remainers have to accept that compromise and drop the clamour for a "people's vote" which let's face it is little more than an attempt at reversing a democratic mandate (however flawed).

I tend to flip-flop on the 2nd referendum. For one thing (TBH) there is the possibility that a Leave outcome might still prevail. The messaging of the Leaver campaign worked last time and this time there'd be the added spice (or poison) of the 'treachery' issue. The leverage and traction that they'd get out of this would be considerable - and they would go very low. (Think Trump - and go lower.)

 

[Guinness Boy]

You know, I'm a big Beatles fan too, but just because both Lennon and McCartney were pro Irish Republican, and both wrote, produced and released pro-Irish republic songs, I don't consider either of them extremist either.

Lennon and McCartney were never going to run the country and Corbyn is never going to write a number 1 hit. There are some musicians and DJs who I love who are absolute fruitcakes politically. Mark E Smth used to make me howl with laughter but I probably agreed with 10% of what he wrote.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

Lots of posts from remainers earlier in the thread stressing that a no deal wouldn't matter to the EU etc etc.

I thought it was more that remainers were pointing out that a no-deal wouldn't harm the EU as much as the UK.

And this was often in response to Brexiteers claiming the EU would be destroyed by no deal (or variations of this argument).

 

[ManOfSussex]

I didn’t think anyone but the most ardent of Brexiteers was hoping for a No Deal?

You've got me interested now Trig. Who thought the EU wanted a 'no deal' ? (facepalm emoji removed in case someone thought it insulting)

Possibly a reference to posts made by me, based on comments I've read and heard that Sir Ivan Rogers has been saying for a while, that an extension from The EU was far from guaranteed and their growing exasperation at our procrastination and general numbnutery as a country and this whole futile process, plus emerging divisions within The EU27 could result in a refusal.

What would Sir Ivan Rogers know anyway? He's an expert.

 

[daveinplzen]

Sorry but I see an openly pro Palestinian, pro Irish Republican as extremist on the left and you only have to look at what's happening to the local Labour party to see that Momentum are taking over in Brighton and Hove.

He is pro Palestinian? wow.. what a *******. Supporting an oppressed people. I see your point.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

You know, I'm a big Beatles fan too, but just because both Lennon and McCartney were pro Irish Republican, and both wrote, produced and released pro-Irish republic songs, I don't consider either of them extremist either.

Fair enough. But the Beatles didn't - as far as I recollect - intend to be elected as a government.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I am referring to the sentiment. I agree that the opinion has been expressed at length that a no deal would be worse for Britain. It doesn't mean there haven't been loads of posts that have expressed that a no deal would not hurt the EU much.

It's mutually assured damage, but Republic of Ireland aside, it wouldn't hurt The EU as much as it will us. We're also the ones choosing to inflict the damage by leaving The EU in the manner we are, not the other way round.

 

[Hotchilidog]

If you’d rather see a Tory representing Hove in parliament than vote for Labour, I can totally empathise with your position.

The people suffering from austerity thank you for your support.

 

[Dave the OAP]

I also voted for Peter Kyle despite being to the right of central in my politics. It helped that the Tories put up some religious loon. It also helped that he'd been a decent MP in the previous parliament. I've given up worrying about who will govern ..... they are all as bad as each other so I vote for the person I think will best represent Hove and Portslade. Locally I can only really vote for Janio and Barnett because of all the help they have both given me and other residents is solving local problems. Now EU elections .... well that's a completely different game !!!!

I feel exactly the same....I voted for Kyle and more importantly will vote for peter Atkinson who is a brilliant local labour councillor for portslade and mile oak and is approachable and gets things done. I always was a Tory voter, but Peter Kyle took the time to speak to us and listened to local problems that affects us all. Of the things we were concerned about, he fixed a few of them BUT always gave us a reason if they couldn't be fixed.

The issue, and Atkinson had the same problem is that certain hard left people tried and are trying to get them deselected as they don't see them as " socialist enough" ...luckily Atkinson saw them off, but I fear for Kyle.

On the brexit thing...as corbyn wants a customs union / single market and the EU will not change the scope of what that entails, I do not believe there will ever be an agreement between the parties in parliament, we will never leave the EU whoever is in power.
Personally for my job, pension etc, I am not that unhappy with that, but I understand why that is totally unacceptable to a lot of people.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

It's mutually assured damage, but Republic of Ireland aside, it wouldn't hurt The EU as much as it will us. We're also the ones choosing to inflict the damage by leaving The EU in the manner we are, not the other way round.

Yes. In simple terms, Euro-sceptics have always framed our EU membership as a zero-sum game (they win/we lose or vice versa). Euro-enthusiasts see it as a positive-sum game (both parties win). And it's hard to see a no-deal (or any other form of Brexit) as anything other than a negative-sum game (lose-lose). Welcome to Shoot-Yourself-in-the-Foot territory, with rifles being handed out by ERG members!

 

[Mental Lental]

The people suffering from austerity thank you for your support.

Hey, I said I empathised with the decision not that I agreed with it.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I agree with all of this.

Another six month extension has been proposed with the EU pleading with the UK to use it wisely. You know what? Absolutely nothing is going to change in that six months. Why? Because the real problem is that absolutely nobody in the Commons is incentivized to compromise. Until the "treachery" rhetoric is toned down by those on the right so that the front bench can feel they can modify their red lines, and until Labour have some guarantees that nobody in government is going to rip up any sort of deal, what can possibly change?

I think the public have a role to play in this too. Those supporting leave need to accept that a compromise must be made - they won by a paper-thin majority that is arguably no longer there. Consequently, that means a soft Brexit is the only plausible outcome and no amount of lying by the likes of IDS and John Redwood - both telling TV interviewers barefaced lies that the majority of the public want a no deal Brexit - is going to change that. Equally, remainers have to accept that compromise and drop the clamour for a "people's vote" which let's face it is little more than an attempt at reversing a democratic mandate (however flawed).

Switzerland are so democratic they have as many as two referendums (referendi?) a year. They recently held one about cohabiters and married couples paying the same rate of tax. It is being re-run because it was found to have had wrong information given out to the voters.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-eu...YSmgpE5dFHKa--sgjIJegb8rR6jerpPaOXHaq1RFDcB_8

Nobody, Leavers or Remainers can say we knew all the correct information in June 2016.

Personally, I don't want a second referendum because there are still a lot of people firmly entrenched in their beliefs, some still believing the lies because it suits them, and could still be divisive. I have seen many Remainers who have changed their minds but I still think it would be too close to call.

My personal wish is to Revoke Article 50 altogether, but I would be willing to compromise if we settled for a Norway exit, but the politicians won't agree to that because it involves Freedom of Movement.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Hey, I said I empathised with the decision not that I agreed with it.

Re-read your comment, apologies for the mis-interpretation

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Hang about.

The first post was that posters were saying the EU wanted a 'no deal'.

Then your post was that lots of remain posters were saying 'no deal' wouldn't matter to the EU

Then your next post you're saying that remain posters were saying it wouldn't hurt the EU much

Then, Well they didn't actually say that, it's the sentiment

You are rowing backwards faster than Steve Redgrave in the Severn Bore [emoji38]ol:

I don't think you know what you are talking about. I don't agree that the EU had ever wanted a no deal. I pointed out that many posts from remainers stated that a no deal would hurt the UK more and wouldn't have much effect on the EU as it was a larger body. I am not rowing back in the least, you are being extremely picky, you seem to like argument just for the sake of it. If you don't think there are posts on here saying a no deal wouldn't effect the EU much it at all or whatever then that's your choice.

 

[Simster]

My personal wish is to Revoke Article 50 altogether, but I would be willing to compromise if we settled for a Norway exit, but the politicians won't agree to that because it involves Freedom of Movement.

All remainers want Article 50 revoked don't they? Certainly I do. But what you're proposing doesn't seem realistic or even much of a compromise to me.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I thought it was more that remainers were pointing out that a no-deal wouldn't harm the EU as much as the UK.

And this was often in response to Brexiteers claiming the EU would be destroyed by no deal (or variations of this argument).

Yes, I agree, maybe i used a poor choice of wording, but I find it hard to imagine any Brexiteer however frothing at the mouth, would say a no deal would ruin the EU?