[Politics] Brexit

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

So May returns to the Commons today and MPs can bugger off on holiday. The ERG will return to their constituencies and wind-up their Associations for a renewed offensive on May. They will work themselves up into a frenzy of (I can almost see Francois exploding with anger) about sell-out and treachery. They will keep trying to float the 'Brady amendment' and having stitched up the DUP they will now jump back into bed with them. Meanwhile May's 'successors' will jostle for position.


Sensible eyes will be on the progress (or lack of it) on the talks between Labour and the Tories. At first I was optimistic on this but now that the immediate pressure of the no-deal deadline has passed I suspect that momentum (with a small 'm') will be lost and they will re-trench.


It adds up to a continuation of the stalemate. There is the 'default' of a replay of the next 'indicative' Commons vote and my own suspicion is that that's where we'll end up, Hopefully there'll be a sensible voting arrangement this time which produces an outcome which May (assuming she hasn't be deposed by foul means by then) will take to the EU. But, given the urgency of the deadline to avoid the European Parliamentary elections, one would have hope that our elected members might have cut short their holidays to pursue the matter with a bit more diligence.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I've voted for Peter Kyle in the last two elections and I support HIM as a centerist and remainer, who has, again, acted to try and sort this mess out. However, we are not having a GE in May (yet ). We are having an EU and Local election. I don't want Momentum running Brighton Council and I want a pro 2nd Referendum candidate in the EU Parliament so that's how I'll vote this time.

My sincere hope is that, if a GE is called, that Kyle will defect to TIG or Momentum will seek to deselect him and he'll move by default (if either of those happen Labour will lose Hove). Frankly, either are possible or not. But in a GE, as much as I like Kyle, if he is representing Corbyn he has lost my vote. The country needs consensus and compromise, not more extremism and populism, whether left or right.

I also voted for Peter Kyle despite being to the right of central in my politics. It helped that the Tories put up some religious loon. It also helped that he'd been a decent MP in the previous parliament. I've given up worrying about who will govern ..... they are all as bad as each other so I vote for the person I think will best represent Hove and Portslade. Locally I can only really vote for Janio and Barnett because of all the help they have both given me and other residents is solving local problems. Now EU elections .... well that's a completely different game !!!!

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

So May returns to the Commons today and MPs can bugger off on holiday. The ERG will return to their constituencies and wind-up their Associations for a renewed offensive on May. They will work themselves up into a frenzy of (I can almost see Francois exploding with anger) about sell-out and treachery. They will keep trying to float the 'Brady amendment' and having stitched up the DUP they will now jump back into bed with them. Meanwhile May's 'successors' will jostle for position.


Sensible eyes will be on the progress (or lack of it) on the talks between Labour and the Tories. At first I was optimistic on this but now that the immediate pressure of the no-deal deadline has passed I suspect that momentum (with a small 'm') will be lost and they will re-trench.


It adds up to a continuation of the stalemate. There is the 'default' of a replay of the next 'indicative' Commons vote and my own suspicion is that that's where we'll end up, Hopefully there'll be a sensible voting arrangement this time which produces an outcome which May (assuming she hasn't be deposed by foul means by then) will take to the EU. But, given the urgency of the deadline to avoid the European Parliamentary elections, one would have hope that our elected members might have cut short their holidays to pursue the matter with a bit more diligence.

1st of June and we could be out on a no deal
regards
DR

 

[Mental Lental]

IBut in a GE, as much as I like Kyle, if he is representing Corbyn he has lost my vote. The country needs consensus and compromise, not more extremism and populism, whether left or right.

Hove is a marginal seat for Labour over the Tories. No other party is remotely close to the 22,000 vs 20,000 Labour/Con battle in that seat. If you don't vote Labour, you are voting Tory. If the Tory guy gets in (Cox?) you will have more extremism and populism, not less.

 

[WATFORD zero]

1st of June and we could be out on a no deal
regards
DR

 

[Mental Lental]

I've voted for Peter Kyle in the last two elections and I support HIM as a centerist and remainer, who has, again, acted to try and sort this mess out. However, we are not having a GE in May (yet ). We are having an EU and Local election. I don't want Momentum running Brighton Council and I want a pro 2nd Referendum candidate in the EU Parliament so that's how I'll vote this time.

My sincere hope is that, if a GE is called, that Kyle will defect to TIG or Momentum will seek to deselect him and he'll move by default (if either of those happen Labour will lose Hove). Frankly, either are possible or not. But in a GE, as much as I like Kyle, if he is representing Corbyn he has lost my vote. The country needs consensus and compromise, not more extremism and populism, whether left or right.

Actually I just checked who was running for Tories in Hove in 2015...

https://www.gscene.com/news/graham-cox-conservative-candidate-for-hove-and-portslade/

Seems like a nice guy. If only he was representing someone else.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Hove is a marginal seat for Labour over the Tories. No other party is remotely close to the 22,000 vs 20,000 Labour/Con battle in that seat. If you don't vote Labour, you are voting Tory. If the Tory guy gets in (Cox?) you will have more extremism and populism, not less.

Absolutely this. Vote Lib Dem or Green in Hove and you'll get a Tory...and I say that as a Green voter in Pavilion.

 

[WATFORD zero]

So maybe a couple of people here will now accept that the EU really don't want a No Deal Brexit either.

You've got me interested now Trig. Who thought the EU wanted a 'no deal' ? (facepalm emoji removed in case someone thought it insulting)

 

[Bold Seagull]

I've voted for Peter Kyle in the last two elections and I support HIM as a centerist and remainer, who has, again, acted to try and sort this mess out. However, we are not having a GE in May (yet ). We are having an EU and Local election. I don't want Momentum running Brighton Council and I want a pro 2nd Referendum candidate in the EU Parliament so that's how I'll vote this time.

My sincere hope is that, if a GE is called, that Kyle will defect to TIG or Momentum will seek to deselect him and he'll move by default (if either of those happen Labour will lose Hove). Frankly, either are possible or not. But in a GE, as much as I like Kyle, if he is representing Corbyn he has lost my vote. The country needs consensus and compromise, not more extremism and populism, whether left or right.

Respect your opinion GB, but got to say I think it is a massive over exaggeration to say Corbyn's Labour is somehow left extremism. The Labour manifesto in 2017 in many ways wasn't any further left than Ed Milliband's 2 years before, and yet the press presented as the radical left. Put alongside some of the Scandanavian Labour parties and it's not that left at all - just normal. Peter Kyle and others have their place in the Labour Party just as the likes of Corbyn and Ed Milliband had theirs in Blair's New Labour. Momentum have been blown out of all proportion, the press loving the portrayal of this some how covert Trotsky subversive group infiltrating all aspects of the party. For the most part this is how the left of the party felt when Blair came in and turned it into Tory-lite. That was a more aggressive transformation than we have seen under Corbyn.

These groups form within each party, what is happening to Dominic Grieve in his constituency is far more sinister than what Momentum get up to, mainly encouraging candidates that support Corbyn's leadership, which is what happens in most political parties anyway.

I don't see Peter Kyle defecting from Labour, I don't see him being deselected either, all a lot of hot air. He'll get my vote again.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Hove is a marginal seat for Labour over the Tories. No other party is remotely close to the 22,000 vs 20,000 Labour/Con battle in that seat. If you don't vote Labour, you are voting Tory. If the Tory guy gets in (Cox?) you will have more extremism and populism, not less.

Loughton lost quite a bit of his majority in the 2017 election. That Tory seat might not be so safe after all.
The European elections are a different kettle of fish altogether.

 

[Simster]

So May returns to the Commons today and MPs can bugger off on holiday. The ERG will return to their constituencies and wind-up their Associations for a renewed offensive on May. They will work themselves up into a frenzy of (I can almost see Francois exploding with anger) about sell-out and treachery. They will keep trying to float the 'Brady amendment' and having stitched up the DUP they will now jump back into bed with them. Meanwhile May's 'successors' will jostle for position.


Sensible eyes will be on the progress (or lack of it) on the talks between Labour and the Tories. At first I was optimistic on this but now that the immediate pressure of the no-deal deadline has passed I suspect that momentum (with a small 'm') will be lost and they will re-trench.


It adds up to a continuation of the stalemate. There is the 'default' of a replay of the next 'indicative' Commons vote and my own suspicion is that that's where we'll end up, Hopefully there'll be a sensible voting arrangement this time which produces an outcome which May (assuming she hasn't be deposed by foul means by then) will take to the EU. But, given the urgency of the deadline to avoid the European Parliamentary elections, one would have hope that our elected members might have cut short their holidays to pursue the matter with a bit more diligence.

I agree with all of this.

Another six month extension has been proposed with the EU pleading with the UK to use it wisely. You know what? Absolutely nothing is going to change in that six months. Why? Because the real problem is that absolutely nobody in the Commons is incentivized to compromise. Until the "treachery" rhetoric is toned down by those on the right so that the front bench can feel they can modify their red lines, and until Labour have some guarantees that nobody in government is going to rip up any sort of deal, what can possibly change?

I think the public have a role to play in this too. Those supporting leave need to accept that a compromise must be made - they won by a paper-thin majority that is arguably no longer there. Consequently, that means a soft Brexit is the only plausible outcome and no amount of lying by the likes of IDS and John Redwood - both telling TV interviewers barefaced lies that the majority of the public want a no deal Brexit - is going to change that. Equally, remainers have to accept that compromise and drop the clamour for a "people's vote" which let's face it is little more than an attempt at reversing a democratic mandate (however flawed).

 

[Thunder Bolt]

common sense was to have left the EU as instructed in 2016 , too many sly people acting on behalf of their constituents FACT
regards
DR

Maria has represented you perfectly, so shouting FACT on your post doesn't make you right.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Unfortunately, I do not accept that this part is universally the case.

Whether their views have developed because of the protracted Brexit shambles, or whether they are long-held nationalist prejudices, isn't always clear, but quite plainly there are many on the leave side of the fence who would actively relish a downturn and subsequent hardships in the rest of Europe - a place they sadly see as an adversary rather than an ally.

A ridiculous state of affairs, but very plainly, IMO at least, the reality.

There are plenty of posts from remainers in this thread which away to relish economic woes in the eventuality of Brexit. I think both sides of the argument tend to overstress the relative benefits/costs of leaving or staying. This doesn't mean anyone (although there may be the odd outlier) wishes ill on either Britain or Europe.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

You've got me interested now Trig. Who thought the EU wanted a 'no deal' ? (facepalm emoji removed in case someone thought it insulting)

Lots of posts from remainers earlier in the thread stressing that a no deal wouldn't matter to the EU etc etc.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Hove is a marginal seat for Labour over the Tories. No other party is remotely close to the 22,000 vs 20,000 Labour/Con battle in that seat. If you don't vote Labour, you are voting Tory. If the Tory guy gets in (Cox?) you will have more extremism and populism, not less.

Respect your opinion GB, but got to say I think it is a massive over exaggeration to say Corbyn's Labour is somehow left extremism. The Labour manifesto in 2017 in many ways wasn't any further left than Ed Milliband's 2 years before, and yet the press presented as the radical left. Put alongside some of the Scandanavian Labour parties and it's not that left at all - just normal. Peter Kyle and others have their place in the Labour Party just as the likes of Corbyn and Ed Milliband had theirs in Blair's New Labour. Momentum have been blown out of all proportion, the press loving the portrayal of this some how covert Trotsky subversive group infiltrating all aspects of the party. For the most part this is how the left of the party felt when Blair came in and turned it into Tory-lite. That was a more aggressive transformation than we have seen under Corbyn.

These groups form within each party, what is happening to Dominic Grieve in his constituency is far more sinister than what Momentum get up to, mainly encouraging candidates that support Corbyn's leadership, which is what happens in most political parties anyway.

I don't see Peter Kyle defecting from Labour, I don't see him being deselected either, all a lot of hot air. He'll get my vote again.

Sorry but I see an openly pro Palestinian, pro Irish Republican as extremist on the left and you only have to look at what's happening to the local Labour party to see that Momentum are taking over in Brighton and Hove.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Leavers and remainders would have to be Blind Freddy not to see that Germany has now taken control of the Brexit debacle.A sad day as our Parliament flounders in its ineptitude.

Really? That's simply untrue though isn't it? Macron has more balls than Merkel it seems.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Lots of posts from remainers earlier in the thread stressing that a no deal wouldn't matter to the EU etc etc.

I've seen lots of posts saying that a 'no deal' would be far worse for Britain, which of course it would. If Britain decides to blow it's own brains out economically, then of course it will have a significant effect on the rest of the EU.

However, I can't recall any post saying that the EU wanted a 'no deal'.

Maybe you could correct me and show me one ?

 

[portlock seagull]

And I believe that quote says 'you said something stupid' and here is the statement that you are missing



I still think the statement is stupid and still haven't called portlock seagull stupid, despite being insulted in the earlier part of the quote you didn't include.

My point still stands

It’s ok because you are wrong. The End.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I've seen lots of posts saying that a 'no deal' would be far worse for Britain, which of course it would. I can't recall any post saying that the EU wanted a 'no deal'.

Maybe you could correct me and show me one ?

I am referring to the sentiment. I agree that the opinion has been expressed at length that a no deal would be worse for Britain. It doesn't mean there haven't been loads of posts that have expressed that a no deal would not hurt the EU much.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Sorry but I see an openly pro Palestinian, pro Irish Republican as extremist on the left and you only have to look at what's happening to the local Labour party to see that Momentum are taking over in Brighton and Hove.

You know, I'm a big Beatles fan too, but just because both Lennon and McCartney were pro Irish Republican, and both wrote, produced and released pro-Irish republic songs, I don't consider either of them extremist either.