[Politics] Brexit

[Stat Brother]

Fudging glorious:-

[tweet]1114094310285246464[/tweet]

 

[Triggaaar]

True, I guess my thinking is that what primarily motivated May to bring in Corbyn and Labour was that the most likely outcome of doing so would be political damage for labour and a softened blow for the Tories.

Personally I don't think the intention was political damage for Labour (not because the Tories wouldn't want that, of course they would, but I don't see it as a likely outcome), but rather that she (and her party) have to be seen to be trying to do something, rather than pointlessly asking parliament to vote on the same thing again.

It has reached the point where that is the best course of action to minimise a negative outcome for the Tories, I think that was at the forefront of the thinking, rather than the national interest.

We're roughly in agreement, I also doubt that national interest was at the forefront of her thinking.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Sorry dont assume I am of low intelligence enough to be conned , thats typical of most 'remainers' (not accusing you in particular) that everybody who would like to leave must be of sub-intelligence to moron grade troglodyte. I did not claim it to be accurate I just said I heard it (did not see as had back to TV) on a reputable TV news channel with an expert (if there is such a thing) European person (so not an English brexiteer) of repute. I was also pointing out that the EU have plans for other things such as A Euro Army & a Financial Commissioner/Director who would set our tax rate not our own politicians which is far from what the remainers claim as staying the status quo we currently have.

My point being neither a Leave or Remain option will be what is necessarily what is or has been promised and that both options have pit falls so its hardly going to be a great choice.

I didn't call you anything. It's just that you heard something and took it as fact. When it was a lie.

Setting our tax rates? Also complete rubbish. A total lie.

European Army? Well if you scroll up you'll see that that's not true either (in the scary context it's been fed to people).

It's all nonsense and it's easily debunked by looking at the facts. I haven't called you names or questioned your intelligence. Plenty of intelligent people get conned.

 

[albion68]

And the infuriating element is that these things are so easy to verify. Which reinforces my opinion that so many leave votes were based on lazy, pre-conditioned ideals that were designed to appeal to the sector that wants to believe anything bad about the EU.
In short; a con job.

What happens when we have a GE , people vote for all sorts of promises from Con or Lab or Tony Blair seems like a nice sincere chap for instance .There is all sorts of reasons they might be trivial ones but the result is adhered to .

 

[Lever]

Sorry dont assume I am of low intelligence enough to be conned , thats typical of most 'remainers' (not accusing you in particular) that everybody who would like to leave must be of sub-intelligence to moron grade troglodyte. I did not claim it to be accurate I just said I heard it (did not see as had back to TV) on a reputable TV news channel with an expert (if there is such a thing) European person (so not an English brexiteer) of repute. I was also pointing out that the EU have plans for other things such as A Euro Army & a Financial Commissioner/Director who would set our tax rate not our own politicians which is far from what the remainers claim as staying the status quo we currently have.

My point being neither a Leave or Remain option will be what is necessarily what is or has been promised and that both options have pit falls so its hardly going to be a great choice

thats typical of most 'remainers'

I object to your sweeping generalisation. On what basis do you make that provocative comment?

 

[The Clamp]

What happens when we have a GE , people vote for all sorts of promises from Con or Lab or Tony Blair seems like a nice sincere chap for instance .There is all sorts of reasons they might be trivial ones but the result is adhered to .

There are manifold differences between GE's and the EU referendum.

But lies are lies and if I found out a party were lying about something I would re-think voting for them.

Can we predict what will occur down the line? To some extent.

I can certainly guarantee you there will be no obligation to join the Euro and no "EU Army" that we will be forced to be a part of.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Schrodinger's EU

Getting more powerful & forcing us to do at we're told, and getting so weak, it will break up very soon.

 

[Baldseagull]

Just like the people of France and the Netherlands voted against the EU Constitution and ended up with the EU constitution 2.0. As we discussed before, triggering that veto is at the discretion/interpretation of UK governments and the law can be changed at any time. After the recent experience, it's not too hard to see how a future Uk government that was pro EU membership wouldn't want to go anywhere near a referendum ever again. As you know ever closer political union is mainly achieved by a gradual descent into the quicksand carefully avoiding any specific electoral mandate. The idea that the Uk electorate has a veto in preventing any further UK integration into the EU is total bollox.

The Law could be changed, but it would be a brave Government to do that. It is not at the discretion of Governments, the criteria are clear, and any treaty signed without a referendum would be at threat of legal challenge. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2011/12/section/4/enacted

 

[albion68]

There are manifold differences between GE's and the EU referendum.

But lies are lies and if I found out a party were lying about something I would re-think voting for them.

Can we predict what will occur down the line? To some extent.

I can certainly guarantee you there will be no obligation to join the Euro and no "EU Army" that we will be forced to be a part of.

It will not matter if we are not in the EU .Do you want Democratic vote overturned and if so how ,second referendum ?

 

[The Clamp]

It will not matter if we are not in the EU .Do you want Democratic vote overturned and if so how ,second referendum ?

It won't matter in the EU either.
Ah, now for the controversial view from me. I wish to revoke A50, overturn Brexit and stay in the EU with no second referendum. I have alway taken this view.
Not a popular view from either side, I understand that.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It will not matter if we are not in the EU .Do you want Democratic vote overturned and if so how ,second referendum ?

Nullified by corruption and lies. In just the same way Lance Arnstrong won the Tour de France but was found cheating, so it didn't count.

 

[Baldseagull]

I'm sorry if I don't take your predictions of doom seriously but (and I may be wrong) it seems a common theme.

Was it not you who said that a hard Brexit on the 31st of March was guaranteed because of the "deal" done between Banks, Farage and the Italian PM?

I pointed out at the time that trusting an Italian politician was like trusting Adam Johnson at a youth club disco, and I was right.

"No deal" won't happen. Way too many powerful people have way too much to lose.

 

[lawros left foot]

Is democracy just about the number of votes garnered, or is it also about, how those votes were garnered?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Is democracy just about the number of votes garnered, or is it also about, how those votes were garnered?

This. Unbelievable, the extent to which this is being wilfully ignored.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

This. Unbelievable, the extent to which this is being wilfully ignored.

There are some powerful people pulling the strings. Not least, Philip May.

 

[golddene]

This. Unbelievable, the extent to which this is being wilfully ignored.

Quite agree, it's almost as if those who are taking us out had this intention from the outset! As I stated previously, the Tories want this so much they can almost taste it and nothing will stand in their way. Seeing Redwood on Ch4 news tonight with his smug face prior to being interviewed said it all to me?

 

[LlcoolJ]

Is democracy just about the number of votes garnered, or is it also about, how those votes were garnered?

There are clearly a large number of people who just don't want to admit that they've been played.

Admitting that you were made a fool of is a difficult thing to do. Takes someone of strong character to say "yes, I was wrong" but it's an even bigger step to say "yes, I was wrong because I was lied to and I believed it".

That's the struggle that intelligent Leave voters are having to deal with now. Backed into a corner, trying to save face seems better than admitting the truth. Because admitting the truth is difficult in this situation. From a purely emotional/human nature perspective if nothing else.

 

[clapham_gull]

There are clearly a large number of people who just don't want to admit that they've been played.

Admitting that you were made a fool of is a difficult thing to do. Takes someone of strong character to say "yes, I was wrong" but it's an even bigger step to say "yes, I was wrong because I was lied to and I believed it".

That's the struggle that intelligent Leave voters are having to deal with now. Backed into a corner, trying to save face seems better than admitting the truth. Because admitting the truth is difficult in this situation. From a purely emotional/human nature perspective if nothing else.

I had a conversion with someone who worked in my industry and laid out the FACTS what it actually meant.

Not scare stories, the reality of an industry whose heart is in London because we are in EU.

They had been sold a false narrative of individualism soon realised that as an individual it had negative effects.

Taking back control ? Not yours.....

Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[Eeyore]

Sensible thing is for the EU to offer an indefinite extension with various rules attached. Or at least till the end of the year.

I cannot see them approving June 30th.

If we then go back we won't have MPs in the parliament.

 

[LlcoolJ]

I had a conversion with someone who worked in my industry and laid out the FACTS what it actually meant.

Not scare stories, the reality of an industry whose heart is in London because we are in EU.

They had been sold a false narrative of individualism soon realised that as an individual it had negative effects.

Taking back control ? Not yours.....

Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk

Indeed. And from the horse's mouth, the truth about the lies.....

https://youtu.be/MGwz-u5otzk