[Politics] Brexit

[The Rivet]

I like that.

Putin's box of 'useful tools' in the UK spring immediately to mind.

Interesting quote I thought. It works for both leavers and remainers doesn't it.

 

[vegster]

Disagree this time next week she will be able to say:

Despite the Tories seeking cross party support from Labour during this time of national crisis Labour have refused to work in a constructive manner putting the country before party. As such we will now have to seek a long extension and take part in EU elections. Like the global economic crisis we are still suffering from, this is entirely Labour's fault and reiterates why they are unfit for government.

Maybe that's a teeny weeny bit unfair ? Don't remember Labour dealing in sub prime mortgages in the USA ? Or have I been Wooshed ?

 

[Lever]

Actions v reactions I guess.

Are you legitimising the 'reactions' then? Or would you condemn them?

 

[The Rivet]

Are you legitimising the 'reactions' then? Or would you condemn them?

Explaining them, discussing them.

 

[Lever]

Explaining them, discussing them.

What would you say by way of discussion about an MP (of either Remain or Leave persuasion) being threatened by violence? How might you explain it and not condemn it?

 

[Triggaaar]

Or if you read it again, without your sensitivity glasses on

Ok, so you're being defensive.

I've actually complemented [MENTION=9822]KZNSeagull[/MENTION] and only criticised that one post.

Eh? I read a few posts, one was from him, and you were trying to patronise him. It wasn't a compliment. If you've complimented him elsewhere, that's not really relevant.

Had KZN had a quick look at any news feed, they would have found:

Corbyn has told the Press Association:
"We will meet the prime minister. We recognise that she has made a move, I recognise my responsibility to represent the people that supported Labour in the last election and the people who didn’t support Labour but nevertheless want certainty and security for their own future and that’s the basis on which we will meet her and we will have those discussions."

I thought you looked out for misinformation?

No, I don't look out for it, I just comment on it when I notice it and feel like it.

KZN saw a tweet from a Labour peer, and then made a fair comment on that tweet. The fact that Corbyn has said he'll meet May doesn't mean KZN can't comment on what Adonis tweeted (regardless of whether KZN had found out what Corbyn said).

What you could have done, was simply replied that although a Labour peer had said it was a trick, that Corbyn wasn't being so cynical (kinda like 'Dick Head' has). Instead you tried to mock him (another Bold Seagull would reply that you're generally a less pathetic poster etc).

 

[pb21]

Maybe that's a teeny weeny bit unfair ? Don't remember Labour dealing in sub prime mortgages in the USA ?

Of course they didn't but it doesn't stop the Tories saying that they did and people believing them. Would be a similar lie.

 

[The Rivet]

What would you say by way of discussion about an MP (of either Remain or Leave persuasion) being threatened by violence? How might you explain it?

Not exactly a pleasant thought is it? Reading history though suggests that the risk is real.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Quote Originally Posted by The Rivet View Post
A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”

Caldwell





... and like pitching the people against parliament and watching as the goons threaten elected mps with violence?

Not just threatened with violence. Have you seen Hope not hate's news about Jack Renshaw? A mole went to them, and they prevented Rosie Cooper's murder.

[tweet]1113050873465393152[/tweet]

 

[Lever]

Not exactly a pleasant thought is it? Reading history though suggests that the risk is real.

No condemnation? Just an unpleasant thought? My view is that bad things happen when good people say/do nothing.

 

[dingodan]

Here's one.

[tweet]1110114700396761088[/tweet]


@ledbydonkeys have got loads of these quotes from Brexiters on Twitter.

I'm sure you've just made an honest mistake here, but actually Hannan mispoke. If you watch the whole interview he says that the costs of the single market outweigh the benefits, and he talks about the fact that leaving the EU would not exclude us from the free market. He then repeats his point, but uses the word "single" in place of "free" by accident. The video was chopped up by pro remain groups to deliberately mislead by taking advantage of his misspeaking.

From the full interview:

“[businesses say] the costs of EU regulation outweigh the benefits of the Single Market ... I’m going to say this one last time: no-one in Brussels – I’ve been here for 16 years – has ever suggested that if we withdrew from the political aspects of union we would be excluded from the Free Market”

“There are plenty of exporters and entrepreneurs that understand there are better opportunities than under the current deal. But to repeat, absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market” - (he meant "free", not "single").

The difference, for Hannan, between the Free Market and the EU Single Market, is made clear in his book.

“We can say with some certainty that the costs of regulation in the EU outweigh the benefits of the single market” ('Why Vote Leave', Location 1066 in Kindle Edition)

“What is the alternative [to EU membership]? Well, all the options involve remaining part of the European free trade zone that stretches from non-EU Iceland to non-EU Turkey … when every non-EU territory from the Faroe Islands to Montenegro has access to the European free trade area it would be preposterous beyond words to claim that the UK, uniquely, would be denied full market access” (1534)

“It’ll be for the UK’s elected representatives to set the precise terms and conditions of our future relations with the EU. All we can do is set out some broad, obvious guidelines: we’d retain free trade with the single market” (1741) - ["with", not "in"].

 

[Baldseagull]

A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”

Caldwell

For me, the closest fit for that description is Farage.

 

[The Rivet]

No condemnation? Just an unpleasant thought?

I am not one to condemn history nor am I one to defend violence. As you point out though violence may be caused by both 'factions' when they feel 'wronged' I will not say that violence is not effective though, just look at our eu partner France.

 

[Lever]

Not just threatened with violence. Have you seen Hope not hate's news about Jack Renshaw? A mole went to them, and they prevented Rosie Cooper's murder.

[tweet]1113050873465393152[/tweet]

I would hope that everyone on here would condemn this vile behaviour utterly and unequivocally rather than wringing their hands and saying it's somehow a historical inevitability......

 

[The Rivet]

For me, the closest fit for that description is Farage.

And for me Nick Boles. I would love to add many more.

 

[Lever]

I am not one to condemn history nor am I one to defend violence. As you point out though violence may be caused by both 'factions' when they feel 'wronged' I will not say that violence is not effective though, just look at our eu partner France.

So you can't quite bring yourself to condemn violence and threatening behaviour then... you just don't defend it?

What is it actually effective for in your opinion?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I'm sure you've just made an honest mistake here, but actually Hannan mispoke. If you watch the whole interview he says that the costs of the single market outweigh the benefits, and he talks about the fact that leaving the EU would not exclude us from the free market. He then repeats his point, but uses the word "single" in place of "free" by accident. The video was chopped up by pro remain groups to deliberately mislead by taking advantage of his misspeaking.

From the full interview:

“[businesses say] the costs of EU regulation outweigh the benefits of the Single Market ... I’m going to say this one last time: no-one in Brussels – I’ve been here for 16 years – has ever suggested that if we withdrew from the political aspects of union we would be excluded from the Free Market”

“There are plenty of exporters and entrepreneurs that understand there are better opportunities than under the current deal. But to repeat, absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market” - (he meant "free", not "single").

The difference, for Hannan, between the Free Market and the EU Single Market, is made clear in his book.

“We can say with some certainty that the costs of regulation in the EU outweigh the benefits of the single market” ('Why Vote Leave', Location 1066 in Kindle Edition)

“What is the alternative [to EU membership]? Well, all the options involve remaining part of the European free trade zone that stretches from non-EU Iceland to non-EU Turkey … when every non-EU territory from the Faroe Islands to Montenegro has access to the European free trade area it would be preposterous beyond words to claim that the UK, uniquely, would be denied full market access” (1534)

“It’ll be for the UK’s elected representatives to set the precise terms and conditions of our future relations with the EU. All we can do is set out some broad, obvious guidelines: we’d retain free trade with the single market” (1741) - ["with", not "in"].

What he said and what he meant are supposition. You have just agreed he said it.

 

[Weststander]

Lord Adonis, Labour peer agrees with her.

[tweet]1113136542854381575[/tweet]

Arch Remainer Adonis criticised Corbyn’s leadership and policies, being a staunch Blairite. So is Adonis’s view suddenly gospel? Like everyone, he’s just someone with a biased viewpoint. We can keep passing on tweets from biased individuals, it’s gets us nowhere, except makes us feel good that a professional famous person agrees with us.

Instead, let’s hope the party leaders and MP’s in the real world can now reach an agreement on something moderate, rather than the endless round of Twatter and Facebook soundbites ... which got Trump elected.

 

[The Rivet]

So you can't quite bring yourself to condemn violence and threatening behaviour then... you just don't defend it?

What is it actually effective for in your opinion?

I look at life in a way that I am happy with not what you may be happy with. I am observing not advocating which is what you so desperately want me to do. Don't you!

 

[Baldseagull]

Looks like we might have to elect Euro MP's so they can get part pensions out of the EU swill bin.Perhaps all the flouncers are aiming for this as they're out of a job.I already know who I will vote for.The choice for Remainers is going to be much more difficult-finding someone you can trust!

View attachment 106987

UKIP, Brexit Party or possibly even Conservatives for those wishing to stick two fingers up to Brussels still, Liberals or Greens for Remainers I would think, at least all views should have some representation in the EU system.