[Politics] Brexit

[LlcoolJ]

He’s nowhere near as clever as he thinks he is.

And this.

 

[Mellotron]

True, but it will only take 1 of them to veto an extension to implement anything and then we are in an even bigger mess.

You are right, however - they would be shooting themselves in the foot by doing that. No Deal Brexit affects the EU badly as well. Generally the EU seem to have spoken fairly well with one voice throughout the process, unlike our bunch of morons.

 

[KZNSeagull]

You are right, however - they would be shooting themselves in the foot by doing that. No Deal Brexit affects the EU badly as well. Generally the EU seem to have spoken fairly well with one voice throughout the process, unlike our bunch of morons.

Well lets see what happens on Monday. Onus now on Parliament to actually agree on something.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

[tweet]1111645269060476928[/tweet]

Plus
Bernard Jenkin
- Andrea Jenkyns
- David Jones
- Julian Lewis
- Julia Lopez
- Craig Mackinlay
- Anne Marie Morris
- Priti Patel
- Owen Paterson
- John Redwood
- Laurence Robertston
- Andrew Rosindell
- Lee Rowley
- Theresa Villiers

Kate Hoey didn't vote for it? Has she gone full ERG?

 

[Dick Head]

I wonder how much these are worth now.

 

[Dr Bandler]

I guess that means the DUP have voted for it too, or he is a duplicitous unprincipled charlatan.

used to have grudging respect for the chap, not any more!

Absolutely agree. I thought that his ideas may be an anachronistic throwback to the past, but that he at least stood by them and was principled in that. He has now blown that and has no credibility at all. I am not sure which MPs do now, though.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Did anyone say we wouldn't need to align our standards and regulations where necessary as we do with other markets? (eg companies that sell into the EU) The point being it would be our choice and the majority of companies don't sell into the EU but do have to follow all the regulations.

The Trump/chlorinated chicken point is a tired old cliche. The US is our biggest single nation market expanding and increasing in importance on current trade terms. This notion we will sign up to any sh*t deal Trump gives us tells me more about your perception of the UK (weak/desperate) than about what will likely happen.

Strawmanning nonsense. On one hand, the Brexiteers are incompetent idiots, the ERG are a splintered mish-mash of eccentrics, ego's and plainly couldn't organise a p*ss up you know where but on the other they have policies and are masterminding a cunning plan to bring sweat shops back to Britain. Breaking free of the one size fits all EU regulatory regime will obviously have competitive benefits for the UK in some areas and doesn't mean we will end up like Singapore. People will still vote out governments if the balance swings too far either way.

I doubt anyone would be 'celebrating' the current political crisis/shambles, government and opposition both putting party before country. But I agree they have let us down.

It's not really strawmanning when you made a specific reference to whether a delivered brexit represented 'taking back control'. It was put to you what defined brexit, and that is what you replied with. Giving you examples of what taking back control might look like, or the subjective reality isn't straw manning just because you disagree, and it isn't a straw man as it doesn't create a separate argument or detract from your original point. I don't disagree with your description of the ERG either, but they do have a cunning plan for deregulation whether aggressive tax breaks or workers rights - why else do you think the hard right of the Tory party have been Euro-sceptic all these years?

How have the opposition let the country down? They weren't consulted on this deal, it hasn't changed since last Autumn. The government's own benches and the DUP have led the calls to vote the deal down. I don't see how Labour, Liberals, SNP, Green, DUP, or any other party has let people down. There is only one party to blame for where we are right now.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Watch from 4.55 onwards as Emily Maitlis tears him apart last night.

https://youtu.be/V3TT1VE8Jq0

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think I’m done with Brexit for now. I’ll be back in a few weeks. See you on the Fridat Drinks thread. Up ze Hove!

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Leave.EU are properly turning on the Brexit heroes

Leave.EU
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Verified account
[MENTION=20725]Lea[/MENTION]veEUOfficial
21m21 minutes ago
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WATCH | The wretched EU deal is dead, but not thanks to Tory turncoats who rolled over for May. While the DUP stood firm, [MENTION=26624]Jacob[/MENTION]_Rees_Mogg backed the deal (despite saying he'd vote with them!)

 

[Ernest]

I reckon Meaningful Vote 17 might just see it over the line

 

[Stat Brother]

How have the opposition let the country down? They weren't consulted on this deal, it hasn't changed since last Autumn. The government's own benches and the DUP have led the calls to vote the deal down. I don't see how Labour, Liberals, SNP, Green, DUP, or any other party has let people down. There is only one party to blame for where we are right now.

Because at no point have the opposition party been a clear, concise and united voice on Europe.
There has been no leadership or party line.
I have heard Labour MP's arguing with each other about their leaders stance on Europe.

Of course this is a Conservative Party clusterf**k, but unfortunately for everybody else it's a clusterf**k of such magnitude everybody else is being hit by the fallout.

Just sitting by silently watching the Tories take a Gatling gun to their own feet is normally fine and dandy.
But this time they have been aiming at everybody's feet and all the Labour Party has done is say 'hey don't forget us - we've got feet as well'.

 

[WATFORD zero]

And this is why some violence is inevitable. Because too many Remainers continue to argue their point in such condescendingly pious ways, on such a highly emotive and divisive matter as Brexit. The country is a powder keg with bright sparks like you running around with matches. On today, of all days, it’s unbelievable how foolish many people can be, as if it was ever so simple? And you have the nerve to call me stupid with your demonstrable Master’s in Idiocy laid bare for everyone to see! Suggest you take some quick classes in diplomacy or better still keep your mouth shut in public. Couple hundred years ago I’m fairly certain someone would have run a sword through you, the country would have descend into civil war. Fortunately we’ve moved on but I wonder how many people will be killed in the next few months in Brexit related violence.

'And this is why some violence is inevitable' WTF ?

I notice you are off with the insults again as soon as someone disagrees with you (seems to be a common feature amongst certain groups on here).

This whole spat started because you said something stupid

Come off it. You don’t really believe that. Even ardent Remainers admit / can see the EU made it incredibly hard simply by doing nothing (mainly because it didn’t have to, which you’ve got begrudgingly admire as a strategy even if you are pro-leave)

I pointed out that you said something stupid and then when you realise how stupid it was you go off down the 'patronising' path as you can't bear to admit that what you have said is plain stupid.

Then when I point out that calling someone patronising is a common way of deflecting from the fact they have just stated the obvious, you 'advise' me to stop stating the obvious, as it could lead to violence ?

Kowtowing to pathetic insults and threats of violence from immature people for making statements of fact is not what has made Britain and Europe Great

(Or maybe, if you don't make stupid statements, I won't feel compelled to point them out and peace will prevail)

 

[ManOfSussex]

Leave.EU are properly turning on the Brexit heroes

Leave.EU
‏
Verified account
[MENTION=20725]Lea[/MENTION]veEUOfficial
21m21 minutes ago
More
WATCH | The wretched EU deal is dead, but not thanks to Tory turncoats who rolled over for May. While the DUP stood firm, [MENTION=26624]Jacob[/MENTION]_Rees_Mogg backed the deal (despite saying he'd vote with them!)

The ERG have been a massive part of the problem. In Iain Martin's column in The Times yesterday he wrote about them and a 2nd referendum which Dominic Cummings is already preparing for:

Cummings is also clear that the hardline Tories of the European Research Group will play no part in this. They’ll be banned from joining.

In his blog, Cummings castigated in clinical terms MPs in general and members of the ERG in particular. Some of these hardliners have spent years feasting on media attention that they will never receive again, while wittering on about the WTO.

The bottom line is that they propped up Theresa May when she should have been removed after losing her majority in the 2017 election. That would have given us a chance to reset Brexit negotiations. Next, they botched an attempt to oust her last December. Now some of them have changed position to back her deal when it’s probably too late and is done for anyway.

Correctly, the Cummings analysis is that such Tory infighting obscures a bigger point. If Brexit is stopped and the Tory party chooses not to become the voice of a new Leave movement, then his network might have to become a new party to take on the old ones that promised to respect the 2016 vote and didn’t. Let’s see.

Says a friend: “Dom thinks the Tories might be about to slit their own throats for good if Brussels insists on a second referendum as the price of avoiding no-deal.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/beware-the-anger-of-frustrated-brexiteers-wdrtk6pm9

 

[Hampster Gull]

It’s very simple. Take it back to the country, Remain or Leave, if Leave, which Leave, no deal or Mays deal. If politicians like Smogg can change their mind then why can’t we ask the country when so much has changed in the last three years.

HAPPY BREXIT DAY

 

[birthofanorange]

It's never a good time to gloat, hell, we should be well aware of how it has a habit of coming back to bite you (see 'them' up the road), but that said, I feel a lot happier today.
I shall enjoy the weekend now - off work, match tomorrow, and other half is clearing off abroad for a week or so, leaving me in peace.
Cheers, all.

 

[Is it PotG?]

 

[LadySeagull]

I'd love to know how we are supposed to argue our point, for longer than 2 minutes, without being condescending?

I was thinking the same thing...

 

[vegster]

It's never a good time to gloat, hell, we should be well aware of how it has a habit of coming back to bite you (see 'them' up the road), but that said, I feel a lot happier today.
I shall enjoy the weekend now - off work, match tomorrow, and other half is clearing off abroad for a week or so, leaving me in peace.
Cheers, all.

I have a feeling that ever so slowly sanity may be restored so I'm happier. Happier still to see Brooksteed Alehouse has Jaipur on cask at the moment, first one going down nicely at the moment and a 2 pint takeaway ready to go..... Heaven!

 

[Bold Seagull]

Because at no point have the opposition party been a clear, concise and united voice on Europe.
There has been no leadership or party line.
I have heard Labour MP's arguing with each other about their leaders stance on Europe.

Of course this is a Conservative Party clusterf**k, but unfortunately for everybody else it's a clusterf**k of such magnitude everybody else is being hit by the fallout.

Just sitting by silently watching the Tories take a Gatling gun to their own feet is normally fine and dandy.
But this time they have been aiming at everybody's feet and all the Labour Party has done is say 'hey don't forget us - we've got feet as well'.

I thought only MPs talked in Unicorns and Magical Creatures?