[Politics] Brexit

[ManOfSussex]

He’s nowhere near as clever as he thinks he is.

Watch from 4.55 onwards as Emily Maitlis tears him apart last night.

 

[Ernest]

Wonder who the 34 Tory rebels were

 

[Grombleton]

Nah.The sheep are the ones blindly following the twitterati.Leavers are individualists,and don't need a nanny.

Yeah, all 17m of you.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Least Liam Fox May have sealed a deal with Chad by 2051

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I had to chuckle at one comment seen on Facebook this morning.

Them So has Brexit happened or no?

Me No, we applied for an extension

Them Ok thanks

AN Other We must still be in the EU because my continental quilt is still working.


Well, I thought it was funny.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Business: "Parliament, please give us some clarity and a way forward"
Parliament: "No".

I expect that this will also be the same after Monday as well.

 

[Mellotron]

Business: "Parliament, please give us some clarity and a way forward"
Parliament: "No".

I expect that this will also be the same after Monday as well.

Given how the last indicative votes went, I would say it looks likely that Clarke's amendment will pass on Monday, and possibly the 2nd referendum one too. The important thing was getting past May's horrendous deal that no one wants.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Wonder who the 34 Tory rebels were

[tweet]1111645269060476928[/tweet]

Plus
Bernard Jenkin
- Andrea Jenkyns
- David Jones
- Julian Lewis
- Julia Lopez
- Craig Mackinlay
- Anne Marie Morris
- Priti Patel
- Owen Paterson
- John Redwood
- Laurence Robertston
- Andrew Rosindell
- Lee Rowley
- Theresa Villiers

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Given how the last indicative votes went, I would say it looks likely that Clarke's amendment will pass on Monday, and possibly the 2nd referendum one too. The important thing was getting past May's horrendous deal that no one wants.

Mays deal got more votes than any of the indicative votes though - and the Government Payroll abstained on them...

286 vs :


No deal 160

Common Market 2.0 188

Efta/EEA 65

Customs union 264

Labour alt plan 237

Revoke A50 184

2nd referendum 268

Managed no deal 139

 

[KZNSeagull]

Given how the last indicative votes went, I would say it looks likely that Clarke's amendment will pass on Monday, and possibly the 2nd referendum one too. The important thing was getting past May's horrendous deal that no one wants.

Clarke's amendment needs the Withdrawal Agreement to pass. If parliament agrees to any negotiated exit on Monday, then I suppose it is possible that the EU (if they agree to it of course) will change the political declaration at the 10th April council session, parliament then votes it and the WA through and we move on. I doubt it though. Long delays and more months of uncertainty seem the most likely though.

 

[Mellotron]

Mays deal got more votes than any of the indicative votes though - and the Government Payroll abstained on them...

286 vs :


No deal 160

Common Market 2.0 188

Efta/EEA 65

Customs union 264

Labour alt plan 237

Revoke A50 184

2nd referendum 268

Managed no deal 139

Her deal is now dead. Both Letwin and Cable confirmed they weren't expecting to see a majority for any of the options on Weds - plenty of people abstaining/keeping their powder dry at that point, understandably.

At least one if not more will overtake May's Deal votes-wise and see a positive vote on Monday, in my opinion.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Sorry, not having that. The question was "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?". Any solution that delivers leave is perfectly acceptable, regardless of what YOU decide it actually meant.

I gave my opinion on what type of Brexit I want/expect, you have yours but I think any BRINO solution (technically leaving) would leave most Brexiteer voters feeling betrayed and most remainers thinking we went through all this pain just to be tied to the EU with no say. Perfectly acceptable?

 

[Mellotron]

Clarke's amendment needs the Withdrawal Agreement to pass. If parliament agrees to any negotiated exit on Monday, then I suppose it is possible that the EU (if they agree to it of course) will change the political declaration at the 10th April council session, parliament then votes it and the WA through and we move on. I doubt it though. Long delays and more months of uncertainty seem the most likely though.

It would be in their interest to agree, especially if it's a softer Brexit than the one they had already agreed to?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Taking back control - doesn't mean you don't continue to align your rules and regulations with your closest trade partner. A customs union is only a trade deal. Trump is rubbing his hands because he will have the upper hand in being able to force the UK to accept their chlorine wash meat, GM crops, or whatever else – that isn't taking back control, that is being dictated to and ceding control.

The real control the hard brexiters want, is the same battle the Tories have fought with the Unions, and that is to deregulate and be able to exploit. The whole concept of negotiating trade deals around the world is a complete smokescreen behind what is really behind the ERG's policies.

We have taken back control, and this is what our democratic control looks like. It isn't pretty, but should be celebrated that a minority government in this country cannot just do what it wants. This isn't a totalitarian state giving credit to political decisions through populist backing. The people have voted, but what is being delivered is not good enough, simple as that.

The very union of the United Kingdom is at risk, that really isn't taking back control, that is losing control completely.

Did anyone say we wouldn't need to align our standards and regulations where necessary as we do with other markets? (eg companies that sell into the EU) The point being it would be our choice and the majority of companies don't sell into the EU but do have to follow all the regulations.

The Trump/chlorinated chicken point is a tired old cliche. The US is our biggest single nation market expanding and increasing in importance on current trade terms. This notion we will sign up to any sh*t deal Trump gives us tells me more about your perception of the UK (weak/desperate) than about what will likely happen.

Strawmanning nonsense. On one hand, the Brexiteers are incompetent idiots, the ERG are a splintered mish-mash of eccentrics, ego's and plainly couldn't organise a p*ss up you know where but on the other they have policies and are masterminding a cunning plan to bring sweat shops back to Britain. Breaking free of the one size fits all EU regulatory regime will obviously have competitive benefits for the UK in some areas and doesn't mean we will end up like Singapore. People will still vote out governments if the balance swings too far either way.

I doubt anyone would be 'celebrating' the current political crisis/shambles, government and opposition both putting party before country. But I agree they have let us down.

 

[Simster]

I gave my opinion on what type of Brexit I want/expect, you have yours but I think any BRINO solution (technically leaving) would leave most Brexiteer voters feeling betrayed and most remainers thinking we went through all this pain just to be tied to the EU with no say. Perfectly acceptable?

I'm afraid it is perfectly acceptable, yes. At the very least, everyone is in a position where they can campaign to move further in the direction they choose. As I say, your opinion on what type of Brexit you want is indeed merely your opinion - you talk as if it's somehow binding, as if you have some kind of mandate. You really don't.

As an aside, I have enjoyed your posts on this thread as you certainly don't come across stupidly to me, and you make some good points. What does disappoint me is your reluctance to apportion blame for this mess where it really belongs - at the door of the Tory party. This party is not fit for office - their incompetence and individual dishonesty has pretty much shown this.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

The EU negotiate with the Government and the Government can't negotiate a new deal that they don't support. Parliament can't negotiate with the EU ... so a General Election must be likely with a new Tory leader?

 

[KZNSeagull]

It would be in their interest to agree, especially if it's a softer Brexit than the one they had already agreed to?

True, but it will only take 1 of them to veto an extension to implement anything and then we are in an even bigger mess.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

True, but it will only take 1 of them to veto an extension to implement anything and then we are in an even bigger mess.

I think they will offer us 1 long extension and that’s it.

They can then tell us to do one and it doesn’t look like they have some how bullied us to no deal.

 

[LlcoolJ]

I guess that means the DUP have voted for it too, or he is a duplicitous unprincipled charlatan.

used to have grudging respect for the chap, not any more!

He's shown his true colours. As I said earlier in the thread, one of the few really enjoyable things about this week's proceedings has been watching him paint himself into a corner.

How can he have any credibility whatsoever now? The evil ****.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I'm afraid it is perfectly acceptable, yes. At the very least, everyone is in a position where they can campaign to move further in the direction they choose. As I say, your opinion on what type of Brexit you want is indeed merely your opinion - you talk as if it's somehow binding, as if you have some kind of mandate. You really don't.

As an aside, I have enjoyed your posts on this thread as you certainly don't come across stupidly to me, and you make some good points. What does disappoint me is your reluctance to apportion blame for this mess where it really belongs - at the door of the Tory party. This party is not fit for office - their incompetence and individual dishonesty has pretty much shown this.

It is just my opinion but perhaps representative of many leave voters and even some remainers eg leaving the EU isn't just a technicality.

Thank you and you have the rare ability, on this thread to try and see things from a Leave perspective which makes a refreshing change. I have on numerous occasions slated the Government and my contempt for our entire political class is second to none!