[Politics] Brexit

[GrizzlingGammon]

Answer the questions. The Remain campaign had an overwhelming advantage in biased support and funding.

Your question was answered. You've even quoted the link to the answer

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Your question was answered. You've even quoted the link to the answer

Question's'. You can have a go ... Is there any factual proof that supposed criminality changed the outcome? If you or anyone else can't provide any substantive evidence please kindly stop trying to invalidate the democratic voice of 17.4 million people.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Answer the questions. The Remain campaign had an overwhelming advantage in biased support and funding.

But didn't beak the law.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

But didn't beak the law.

Answer the question .. Is there any factual proof that supposed criminality changed the outcome?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Question's'. You can have a go ... Is there any factual proof that supposed criminality changed the outcome? If you or anyone else can't provide any substantive evidence please kindly stop trying to invalidate the democratic voice of 17.4 million people.

The LeaveCampaign & VoteLeave have been fined, and criminal investigations are ongoing, after papers passed to the National Crime Agency by the Met Police.

I'm sorry if words of more than one syllable are difficult for you to read.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

The LeaveCampaign & VoteLeave have been fined, and criminal investigations are ongoing, after papers passed to the National Crime Agency by the Met Police.

I'm sorry if words of more than one syllable are difficult for you to read.

The answer is no then. If you or anyone else can't provide any substantive evidence please kindly stop trying to invalidate the democratic voice of 17.4 million people it's shameful.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

Question's'. You can have a go ... Is there any factual proof that supposed criminality changed the outcome? If you or anyone else can't provide any substantive evidence please kindly stop trying to invalidate the democratic voice of 17.4 million people.

That question has been answered twice. What is your other question(s)?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The answer is no then. If you or anyone else can't provide any substantive evidence please kindly stop trying to invalidate the democratic voice of 17.4 million people it's shameful.

Look at you trying to take the moral high ground.
It's all unraveling around you. Mueller is closing in on Farage but you think my post is shameful.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

That question has been answered twice. What is your other question(s)?

Is there any factual proof that supposed criminality changed the outcome? Please show your workings.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Look at you trying to take the moral high ground.
It's all unraveling around you. Mueller is closing in on Farage but you think my post is shameful.

Ah, evasion and distraction .... no answer to the question then. Of course, I have the moral high ground, I believe democratic elections should be enacted ... as you did before you lost.

 

[pastafarian]

That's heartbreaking news. Imagine how I feel about people determined to ignore the democratic will of 17.4 million people.

There is little point in asking a remoaner (not the same as a remainer) so I think I will ask someone with some common sense.

I am currently hearing mixed messages, some remoaners are saying we should revoke Article 50, kill brexit dead and simply remain in the EU, some remainers are saying we should revoke Article 50 and renegotiate a whole new deal for leaving that parliament can agree on, then re-invoke the previous revoked Article 50 notification of leaving and leave with a deal that has wide appeal.

Any idea which version of revoking they are voting for in this petition? Asking for a friend.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

There is little point in asking a remoaner (not the same as a remainer) so I think I will ask someone with some common sense.

I am currently hearing mixed messages, some remoaners are saying we should revoke Article 50, kill brexit dead and simply remain in the EU, some remainers are saying we should revoke Article 50 and renegotiate a whole new deal for leaving that parliament can agree on, then re-invoke the previous revoked Article 50 notification of leaving and leave with a deal that has wide appeal.

Any idea which version of revoking they are voting for in this petition? Asking for a friend.

Hard to know what they want ...god forbid they didn't know what they were voting for. Deciphering the French, N Korean, Afghan, German accents makes it even harder.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Ah, evasion and distraction .... no answer to the question then. Of course, I have the moral high ground, I believe democratic elections should be enacted ... as you did before you lost.

While you are on the moral high ground and accuse others of evasion and distraction, I wonder if you ever responded to the question I asked below? Genuinely humble apologies if you did and I missed it. It's just that (I estimate) around 90-95% of your posts focus on the issue of the outcome of the referendum, denying the will of the majority/undemocratic loons etc. I don't deny this is important and of course it's something of a trump (with a small t) card. But we never really get much by way of a positive vision. How will things be better after Brexit?


Fair enough; ignore the likes of the CBI and TUC if you will. But how about a vision of what the UK might look like in say 3 or 5 years time after the Brexit process? Here are some prompts but feel free to add your own good news items. What will our pattern of international trade look like? How will our public services fare? How about agriculture when we are free from the shackles of the CAP? Will our universities be flourishing? Where will economic growth come from? Will the NHS get its Brexit bonus funding? Will SMEs pick up any slack in the economy? Can we solve the UK productivity problems? Will there be a rebalancing of the economy regionally? Will worker and consumer protection be improved? Will we attract a higher calibre of immigrant?

The thrust of the Brexiteer's arguments don't go much beyond:

a) so called project fear was wrong last time so it'll be wrong again
b) the UK economy is doing better currently than most thought it would (OK, especially Remainers)


So - what is there for us to look forward to after Brexit? Let's have a bit of inspiration. Please?

 

[Sorrel]

There is little point in asking a remoaner (not the same as a remainer) so I think I will ask someone with some common sense.

I am currently hearing mixed messages, some remoaners are saying we should revoke Article 50, kill brexit dead and simply remain in the EU, some remainers are saying we should revoke Article 50 and renegotiate a whole new deal for leaving that parliament can agree on, then re-invoke the previous revoked Article 50 notification of leaving and leave with a deal that has wide appeal.

Any idea which version of revoking they are voting for in this petition? Asking for a friend.

The problem parliament being in charge has will be that they can't really have a second referendum if they don't vote in favour of a deal. And they can't really vote in favour of a deal if they think it's rubbish. For example, parliament keeps rejecting TMs deal - which is fine - but they can't then come out and say it's a good alternative worthy of a public vote.

Revoking A50 solves that problem as there is no vote. And to be honest who in their right mind wants a second referendum - it would be just awful and I can't afford to leave the country for the next six months it will take to work through that nightmare.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

There is little point in asking a remoaner (not the same as a remainer) so I think I will ask someone with some common sense.

I am currently hearing mixed messages, some remoaners are saying we should revoke Article 50, kill brexit dead and simply remain in the EU, some remainers are saying we should revoke Article 50 and renegotiate a whole new deal for leaving that parliament can agree on, then re-invoke the previous revoked Article 50 notification of leaving and leave with a deal that has wide appeal.

Any idea which version of revoking they are voting for in this petition? Asking for a friend.

It really is very, very simple, if you’re not a moron.

We revoke, to avoid a calamitous disorderly exit. Then with the self-imposed deadline removed, we analyse the facts and debate the options properly, without the sword of Damocles hanging over us. Then we act on, or vote on, the sensible alternatives, which might include the status quo.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

Is there any factual proof that supposed criminality changed the outcome? Please show your workings.

I'm guessing you decided not to read the article.

 

[Mellotron]

Might seem a strange question but would we expect any MPs who are NOT in the ERG to support No Deal Brexit?

Have any non-ERGers come out and openly said they support No Deal?

 

[pastafarian]

How many votes were illegally obtained? ... How many votes went 'missing '? Is there any factual proof that supposed criminality changed the outcome?

There was an appeal case recently, the case was thrown out again after they had lost the initial court case.

Whilst a few on here have been saying guilt is already final and are acting like judge and jury.
The court in this instance refers to the breaches as “alleged”, accepts investigations are ongoing, facts are not fully and finally established and there is no evidence the outcome of the referendum would have been different.

“There are two limbs to the materiality argument. First, before breaches could rationally be said to be material for the purposes of the court interfering with the democratic process, there must be certainty and finality in relation to the findings of misconduct. Whilst I accept that the Electoral Commission make findings to the criminal standard of proof, their relevant findings in respect of these matters are currently subject to appeal to the County Court – and other investigations, including police investigations, are on-going. Whilst of course Parliament or the executive could take steps on the basis of concerns that there has been wrongdoing, it is difficult to see how the court could require them to take action at a time when the facts are not fully and finally established.”

“In any event, even if the breaches are taken at their highest – i.e. as found by the Electoral Commission – there is no evidential basis for the proposition that they are material in the sense that, had they not occurred, the result of the EU referendum would probably have been different.”

“Before us, as a basis for the proposition that had there been none of the alleged breaches of the referendum rules then the result of the referendum would probably have been different, Ms Simor relied upon only (i) the fact that the overspend of Vote Leave was about 8%, and (ii) the swing required to reverse the result was only about 600,000 votes. However, that provides no evidential basis for her proposition.”

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2019/304.html

 

[pastafarian]

It really is very, very simple, if you’re not a moron.

We revoke, to avoid a calamitous disorderly exit. Then with the self-imposed deadline removed, we analyse the facts and debate the options properly, without the sword of Damocles hanging over us. Then we act on, or vote on, the sensible alternatives, which might include the status quo.

Well you must be a moron then, because some remoaners are saying the opposite and are saying revoke Article 50 and kill brexit dead, no more talks, just remain in the EU as we were.
Let me know when you lot have worked out which revoking you are petitioning for.

 

[vegster]

It really is very, very simple, if you’re not a moron.

We revoke, to avoid a calamitous disorderly exit. Then with the self-imposed deadline removed, we analyse the facts and debate the options properly, without the sword of Damocles hanging over us. Then we act on, or vote on, the sensible alternatives, which might include the status quo.

Eminently sensible, however I fear there are too many morons.