[Politics] Brexit

[Baldseagull]

Nothing changes except we are all 1 day closer to the *no deal* abyss.

May's deal is the only realistic way out now ( and that then leads to more arguing ).

Around 5 weeks until the country collapses - as things stand.

Just in case though, the secret backers of Brexit are making moves to win a second referendum. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/brexit-second-referendum-facebook-adverts-money

 

[A1X]

The leave campaign really need to start backing May’s deal ASAP if they still want the U.K. to Brexit. No deal is dead unless the EU force us into it.

Yep. May's deal is the only credible vision for Leave left and the only one which stands a chance of succeeding. Even if No Deal happened such would be the backlash and outcry the UK would be back in the EU, or something akin to it, sooner rather than later. Their "clean Brexit" narrative doesn't wash anymore, and you can tell from their recent words and actions that they know it. I suspect there may soon be a schism on the Leave side between those prepared to back the deal just to get Leave over the line and those who hold out, and ultimately both will be outnumbered by an increasingly vocal and numerous movement against leaving at all.

 

[The Clamp]

You’re getting like Plooks with this paranoid ranting.





On our way.

I like it when wind up merchants don’t understand they are being wound up.

On your way.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Yep. May's deal is the only credible vision for Leave left and the only one which stands a chance of succeeding. Even if No Deal happened such would be the backlash and outcry the UK would be back in the EU, or something akin to it, sooner rather than later. Their "clean Brexit" narrative doesn't wash anymore, and you can tell from their recent words and actions that they know it. I suspect there may soon be a schism on the Leave side between those prepared to back the deal just to get Leave over the line and those who hold out, and ultimately both will be outnumbered by an increasingly vocal and numerous movement against leaving at all.

Ress Mogg

I can live with the de facto removal of the backstop, even if it isn’t de jure. What do I mean by that? I mean that if there is a clear date that says the backstop ends, and that that is in the text of the treaty, or equivalent to the text of the treaty - if it were to be an appendix to the treaty; bear in mind, the Irish backstop is in itself an appendix to the treaty. So if you had a further appendix that said, ‘This will not go beyond a particular date’, and a short date, not a long date, then that would remove the backstop in the lifetime of parliament. That would have a reasonable effect from my point of view ...

A changed deal is a changed deal. Of course, I would be open to considering that.

 

[A1X]

Further to my previous post, Peter Hitchens basically encapsulates my thinking on this

[TWEET]1100689713629925376[/TWEET]

 

[A1X]

Ress Mogg

The problem is what Mr Rees-Mogg wants is then fundamentally not a back-stop, and would not resolve the issue of the violation of the Good Friday Agreement (which is an internationally recognised peace treaty at the end of the day), and violation of which is likely to have serious consequences to Britain's global reputation (not least in the USA). The deal is as it is on the table, if he is not prepared to accept it then he is risking no Brexit at all. He can chase as many unicorns as he wants, but sooner or later he needs to start dealing with reality.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Yep. May's deal is the only credible vision for Leave left and the only one which stands a chance of succeeding. Even if No Deal happened such would be the backlash and outcry the UK would be back in the EU, or something akin to it, sooner rather than later. Their "clean Brexit" narrative doesn't wash anymore, and you can tell from their recent words and actions that they know it. I suspect there may soon be a schism on the Leave side between those prepared to back the deal just to get Leave over the line and those who hold out, and ultimately both will be outnumbered by an increasingly vocal and numerous movement against leaving at all.

'3 weeks maximum' is a phrase I keep reading and hearing that's being mentioned as the figure for how sooner rather than later that no deal scenario would last.

A good piece by Daniel Finkelstein in The Times today on all this arguing if the The ERG are not happy with anything and genuinely believe in no deal, then they should push for a 2nd vote on it. He says they should not ever assume that Tory moderates will ever allow no deal to happen though too. - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...age-to-call-for-a-second-referendum-czd3z7vxw

He finishes it off with this:

There is a deal on the table. If the Brexiteers don’t have the courage to hold a second vote, they should take the deal before it disappears. Don’t blame me if you wait too long and it’s gone.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

'3 weeks maximum' is a phrase I keep reading and hearing that's being mentioned as the figure for how sooner rather than later that no deal scenario would last.

A good piece by Daniel Finkelstein in The Times today on all this arguing if the The ERG are not happy with anything and genuinely believe in no deal, then they should push for a 2nd vote on it. He says they should not ever assume that Tory moderates will ever allow no deal to happen though too. - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...age-to-call-for-a-second-referendum-czd3z7vxw

He finishes it off with this:

The country would be on it's knees within a week. Why try and hold out for 3 weeks ?

Troops on the streets, Civil Contingencies Act. Grim.

 

[beorhthelm]

The problem is what Mr Rees-Mogg wants is then fundamentally not a back-stop, and would not resolve the issue of the violation of the Good Friday Agreement (which is an internationally recognised peace treaty at the end of the day), and violation of which is likely to have serious consequences to Britain's global reputation (not least in the USA). The deal is as it is on the table, if he is not prepared to accept it then he is risking no Brexit at all. He can chase as many unicorns as he wants, but sooner or later he needs to start dealing with reality.

the issue, as it has always been, is to get past this phase of negotiation and then resolve the issue in the next phase. make an assumption that GFA wont be broken and a solution will/can be found, therefore do not need a clause. as it stands the negotiation phase could remain in perpetuity without agreement on this issue, so looks like we get bumped into not leaving but left, a sort of brexit purgatroy. (this is not argument to support, just explanation)

 

[Two Professors]

In that case then you are incorrect, or to be more precise only half right.
We do not and never have solely exported to the EU on Euro Pallets.

A no deal means either that will have to happen which just isn't possible or all our other 'normal' pallets that currently don't require treatment because we are a member state needs to pass inspection.


Not the pain in the arse any of us foresaw at the referendum, but most certainly not an issue to finally mention with a month to go.

I can only speak from actual experience,and both companies I worked for that exported to EU countries were required to send product on Euro pallets.The customers' warehouse racking was only set up to take Euro-pallets,and trying to force a larger pallet in would have collapsed the racking.Also Euro pallet trucks will not pick up other pallets due to the small gap between the forks not fitting around pallet supports.As you always seem to disregard anything told you by Leavers,I'm sure this will make no difference to your Guardianista view,but try researching a bit from people who have actually worked in the industry,not a degree in logistics.

 

[A1X]

The country would be on it's knees within a week. Why try and hold out for 3 weeks ?

Troops on the streets, Civil Contingencies Act. Grim.

Because this is Britain. There is something in the British psyche which would try and hold out in spite of the problems, especially in Government. Lord Melchett summed it up best...

 

[A1X]

the issue, as it has always been, is to get past this phase of negotiation and then resolve the issue in the next phase. make an assumption that GFA wont be broken and a solution will/can be found, therefore do not need a clause. as it stands the negotiation phase could remain in perpetuity without agreement on this issue, so looks like we get bumped into not leaving but left, a sort of brexit purgatroy. (this is not argument to support, just explanation)

The thing is you can't just assume a solution will be found, the EU has a duty to the Republic of Ireland (a full member) to say that if no future agreement is reached it does not have to deal with the consequences. A solution should be easily possible through a future trade deal, but if it's so easy to sort out there should be no reason not to include it. It's the same reason loan companies ask for collateral, nobody is assuming you won't repay and everyone is going to be quite happy that it'll all be fine, but there needs to be insurance in case it doesn't happen. The EU doesn't want to apply the backstop any more than the UK does, it's a bad outcome for them too. But it's a necessary evil, and the unwillingness of some on the Leave side to realise this and compromise on the back of it is, I think, quite telling.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I can only speak from actual experience,and both companies I worked for that exported to EU countries were required to send product on Euro pallets.The customers' warehouse racking was only set up to take Euro-pallets,and trying to force a larger pallet in would have collapsed the racking.Also Euro pallet trucks will not pick up other pallets due to the small gap between the forks not fitting around pallet supports.As you always seem to disregard anything told you by Leavers,I'm sure this will make no difference to your Guardianista view,but try researching a bit from people who have actually worked in the industry,not a degree in logistics.

Got you. So while it may not be a regulation requirement, because EU customers use EU size pallets, shipping to those customers required the exporter to use those pallets for their customers convenience.

So your point is that we've been exporting on these EU pallets anyway, so a no deal scenario won't change a huge amount because most exporters will be probably using compliant pallets anyway. The point [MENTION=435]Stat Brother[/MENTION] then makes is valid in that rather than a truck full of pallets being waved through, someone might be required to check all the pallets are compliant, whereas that wouldn't have been required before.

Is this where shoulder pad northern lady from Dragon's Den made all her coin? Although her fortune was more efficiency of truck movements I thought...

 

[CHAPPERS]

Useless ****ing wankers

[tweet]1100712571202666496[/tweet]

 

[CHAPPERS]

Useless ****ing wankers

[tweet]1100712571202666496[/tweet]

*awaitingwhatabouteryprobablyinvolvingdianeabbott*

 

[WATFORD zero]

the issue, as it has always been, is to get past this phase of negotiation and then resolve the issue in the next phase. make an assumption that GFA wont be broken and a solution will/can be found, therefore do not need a clause. as it stands the negotiation phase could remain in perpetuity without agreement on this issue, so looks like we get bumped into not leaving but left, a sort of brexit purgatroy. (this is not argument to support, just explanation)

Well in the nearly 3 years since the referendum, not one leaver has even managed to come up with a plausible outline of a solution.

I wonder how they think that putting it back another 21 months going to resolve this ?

 

[A1X]

Useless ****ing wankers

[tweet]1100712571202666496[/tweet]

My favourite thing is when he says "the Prime Minister" you can almost see a part of his brain going "oh shit".

 

[WATFORD zero]

I can only speak from actual experience,and both companies I worked for that exported to EU countries were required to send product on Euro pallets.The customers' warehouse racking was only set up to take Euro-pallets,and trying to force a larger pallet in would have collapsed the racking.Also Euro pallet trucks will not pick up other pallets due to the small gap between the forks not fitting around pallet supports.As you always seem to disregard anything told you by Leavers,I'm sure this will make no difference to your Guardianista view,but try researching a bit from people who have actually worked in the industry,not a degree in logistics.

Yes, we get it, You were a forklift driver and know the size of pallets. But try reading the article

Under strict EU rules, pallets — wooden structures that companies use to transport large volumes of goods — arriving from non-member states are required to meet a series of checks and standards.

Wood pallets must be heat-treated or cleaned to prevent contamination and the spread of pests, and have specific markings to confirm that they are legal in EU markets.

Most pallets that British exporters are using do not conform to these rules for non-EU countries, or "third countries," as EU member states follow a much more relaxed set of regulations.

The Department for Environment, Food, and Rural Affairs last week told business leaders that the UK would not have enough EU-approved pallets for exporting to the continent if it leaves without a withdrawal agreement next month.

That means UK companies would be competing for a small number of pallets which meet EU rules, and those that miss out would be forced to wait for new pallets which could take weeks to be ready.

It is nothing to do 'Euro pallets' or their size. If we leave without a deal, we are not in the EU and we have to adhere to completely different standards




You might as well tell us another Bryan Robson story, it's got as much relevance

 

[Stat Brother]

Yes, we get it, You were a forklift driver and know the size of pallets. But try reading the article

Under strict EU rules, pallets — wooden structures that companies use to transport large volumes of goods — arriving from non-member states are required to meet a series of checks and standards.

Wood pallets must be heat-treated or cleaned to prevent contamination and the spread of pests, and have specific markings to confirm that they are legal in EU markets.

Most pallets that British exporters are using do not conform to these rules for non-EU countries, or "third countries," as EU member states follow a much more relaxed set of regulations.

The Department for Environment, Food, and Rural Affairs last week told business leaders that the UK would not have enough EU-approved pallets for exporting to the continent if it leaves without a withdrawal agreement next month.

That means UK companies would be competing for a small number of pallets which meet EU rules, and those that miss out would be forced to wait for new pallets which could take weeks to be ready.

It is nothing to do 'Euro pallets' or their size. If we leave without a deal, we are not in the EU we have to adhere to completely different standards

Yet again

View attachment 105099

You might as well tell us another Bryan Robson story, it's got as much relevance

Thanks I thought I was going mad, esp as I spent part of my adult life as a logistics manager coordinating delivies around the UK and Europe as well as importing from production in the far East.



T'was a long time ago though

 

[WATFORD zero]

Thanks I thought I was going mad, esp as I spent part of my adult life as a logistics manager coordinating delivers around the UK and Europe as well as importing from production in the far East.



T'was a long time ago though

Well do you remember that belligerent forklift driver that kept going round in circles insisting he knew what he was doing