[Politics] Brexit

[The Clamp]

The things is though, Brexit is such a toxic issue it's frankly best not to mention it as a factor at all. They need to stay out of it. It just saves on the inevitable backlash and denials from populist, English nationalist oddballs. It's far better to just make their decisions and relocate as quietly as possible and leave this moribund, divided, political basket case of a country to it.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here. A lot of companies and financial institutions have managed to quietly move operations out of the U.K. But some of the larger ones where a lot of jobs will be lost are inevitably going to make the news. They’re not going to burn bridges by publicly slagging off the U.K. but anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows it’s Brexit.

Would be interesting to know how many employees losing their jobs voted Leave. There are gonna be a huge amount of people who become victims of their own vote.

Although as some have pointed out on here those losing their jobs are probably quite philosophical and they’ll know that it’s worth the short term pain for the long term gain. I mean take Honda for example, 3,500 people from one area losing their jobs in one go. I would imagine they will be understanding about the loss to the local economy and the strain to the area of having 3,500 people suddenly become unemployed. As I’m sure their children will understand it’s alll for the greater good. And yes, the cost of living is going through the roof so it’s not a great time to lose your livelihood but we are apparently regaining sovereignty. And they’ll have their blue passports to look forward to just in case they can afford a holiday in a few years time.

Yes, the Brexiteers may scoff and call it project fear. At some point it’ll hit them where it hurts. I hope they can remain as philosophical about it all as they have thus far.

3,500 “on their way”...... to the Jobcentre.

 

[nicko31]

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here. A lot of companies and financial institutions have managed to quietly move operations out of the U.K. But some of the larger ones where a lot of jobs will be lost are inevitably going to make the news. They’re not going to burn bridges by publicly slagging off the U.K. but anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows it’s Brexit.

Would be interesting to know how many employees losing their jobs voted Leave. There are gonna be a huge amount of people who become victims of their own vote.

Although as some have pointed out on here those losing their jobs are probably quite philosophical and they’ll know that it’s worth the short term pain for the long term gain. I mean take Honda for example, 3,500 people from one area losing their jobs in one go. I would imagine they will be understanding about the loss to the local economy and the strain to the area of having 3,500 people suddenly become unemployed. As I’m sure their children will understand it’s alll for the greater good. And yes, the cost of living is going through the roof so it’s not a great time to lose your livelihood but we are apparently regaining sovereignty. And they’ll have their blue passports to look forward to just in case they can afford a holiday in a few years time.

Yes, the Brexiteers may scoff and call it project fear. At some point it’ll hit them where it hurts. I hope they can remain as philosophical about it all as they have thus far.

3,500 “on their way”...... to the Jobcentre.

For a company like Honda is there anything to gain at all in making a connection with Brexit now they've made their decision, they've put out warning after warning, sent the Japanese ambassador etc etc and the government ignored just them.

Interesting you bring up how many employees voted Leave, unfortunately it won't be just a handful. There was one last night on Channel 4 during their pub interview who reacted angrily when the industry expert from Aston Business School told him it was Brexit that pushed Honda over the edge. Obviously convinced that somehow Brexit would be good for him and his families future

 

[nicko31]

Imagine if Russia could find a way to break apart the nations of the UK, devastate our economy and military budget, and make us see our allies as hated demons - all without firing a shot.

There's a hybrid war going on and we will be comprehensively defeated in under 6 weeks time ( as things stand with *no deal* ).

We really need a Mueller style investigation into what went on in 2016, Carole Cadwalladr has been doing a sterling job trying to get to the truth but we have a government that clearly wants the whole thing brushed under the carpet. It took over 2 years to get Aaron Banks referred to the NCA...

 

[cunning fergus]

Do we? How do you reach that conclusion? A strong EU would stand up to Russia.

Glastnost came about because of economic sanctions. You don't always need an army to defeat an enemy.

Ha, the EU has lobbied the US to limit its sanctions on Russia.....

https://www.ft.com/content/9b9bbd3c-44a5-11e8-93cf-67ac3a6482fd

The EU has no intention of launching crippling sanctions on Russia.

 

[Stat Brother]

For a company like Honda is there anything to gain at all in making a connection with Brexit now they've made their decision, they've put out warning after warning, sent the Japanese ambassador etc etc and the government ignored just them.

Interesting you bring up how many employees voted Leave, unfortunately it won't be just a handful. There was one last night on Channel 4 during their pub interview who reacted angrily when the industry expert from Aston Business School told him it was Brexit that pushed Honda over the edge. Obviously convinced that somehow Brexit would be good for him and his families future

As said yesterday, just remind yourself of the Vote Leave adverts, on YouTube, they have no connection to present day.
I've been fascinated by the English Europhiles who voted leave, expecting their lives to be improved by leaving Europe despite the fact that for either business or pleasure they couldn't possibly be more European.

That said I must look at the Remain ads later.

 

[cunning fergus]

We really need a Mueller style investigation into what went on in 2016, Carole Cadwalladr has been doing a sterling job trying to get to the truth but we have a government that clearly wants the whole thing brushed under the carpet. It took over 2 years to get Aaron Banks referred to the NCA...

You need to extend it to the pro EU mob of Mandelson, Osbourne and Lord Rothschild......

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...oversy-how-the-world-really-works-973817.html

What have those tinkers been up to over the last 20 years........

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Are you in some competition with Two Profs for the single most stupid post on this whole thread ?.

So we are going to 'decide' these tariff rates all on our own and just charge whatever we want without agreement from other members of the WTO ? Maybe everyone in the WTO just 'decides' whatever tariff rates they fancy themselves and then charges them

Makes you wonder why the WTO bother existing

So why can the USA decide it's own tarrifs on imports then ? You can't tell me they got WTO members to agree to the recent hike in tarrifs on goods from China or Canadian steel ?

 

[darkwolf666]

If we get to Wembley for the semi after a 'no deal', will there be any pies?

And if we win the cup, will the leavers be happy for us to play in Europe

 

[Mellotron]

Surprised no mention on here yet. Looks like 3 Tory MPs leaving to join The Independent Group. And one more Labour MP. Are we expecting many more?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here. A lot of companies and financial institutions have managed to quietly move operations out of the U.K. But some of the larger ones where a lot of jobs will be lost are inevitably going to make the news. They’re not going to burn bridges by publicly slagging off the U.K. but anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows it’s Brexit.

Would be interesting to know how many employees losing their jobs voted Leave. There are gonna be a huge amount of people who become victims of their own vote.

Although as some have pointed out on here those losing their jobs are probably quite philosophical and they’ll know that it’s worth the short term pain for the long term gain. I mean take Honda for example, 3,500 people from one area losing their jobs in one go. I would imagine they will be understanding about the loss to the local economy and the strain to the area of having 3,500 people suddenly become unemployed. As I’m sure their children will understand it’s alll for the greater good. And yes, the cost of living is going through the roof so it’s not a great time to lose your livelihood but we are apparently regaining sovereignty. And they’ll have their blue passports to look forward to just in case they can afford a holiday in a few years time.

Yes, the Brexiteers may scoff and call it project fear. At some point it’ll hit them where it hurts. I hope they can remain as philosophical about it all as they have thus far.

3,500 “on their way”...... to the Jobcentre.

We have lost millions of jobs over the years in manufacturing because they simply couldn't compete with countries like China. It's how I lost my job in 1998 as it was cheaper to manufacture the hydraulic valves overseas. It wasn't Brexit then. We just accepted it, moved on, re-skilled.

Yes this piece of news is not good, but there are plenty of other manufacturing businesses popping up that have nothing to do with the automotive industry. This country will change and adapt, jobs will be created in newer technologies like 3D printing, more companies specialising in CNC machined components. It is not the end of the world.

 

[nicko31]

You need to extend it to the pro EU mob of Mandelson, Osbourne and Lord Rothschild......

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...oversy-how-the-world-really-works-973817.html

What have those tinkers been up to over the last 20 years........

That's the 3rd ancient news article in less than 12 hours, lets try and discuss current issues not stuff from 2008

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

You need to extend it to the pro EU mob of Mandelson, Osbourne and Lord Rothschild......

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...oversy-how-the-world-really-works-973817.html

What have those tinkers been up to over the last 20 years........

Indeed.

And look into Tufton Street influence, and disgraced former Defence Secretary Liam Fox's chums involved in Atlantic Bridge a while back. Quite a lot of familiar names keep cropping up.

 

[WATFORD zero]

So why can the USA decide it's own tarrifs on imports then ? You can't tell me they got WTO members to agree to the recent hike in tarrifs on goods from China or Canadian steel ?

Other than all the talk of trade wars with USA, I had no idea about the actual way the USA operates, so I looked it up. In summary, the USA have submitted revised schedules to the WTO and apparently over 40 WTO members (including all the big players Russia, China, EU, Canada, Brazil, India etc etc ) have objected. Very similar to the UK.

The USA has said that they are going to push ahead and impose them anyway, completely regardless of WTO rules. I guess in the current situation the UK could do the same and start a trade war with the rest of the world to coincide with us leaving the EU ? (If we are going to commit economic suicide, let's do it properly )

The other big economies in the world are now also threatening a trade war in response, also ignoring all WTO rules. So, I guess if this plays out the major economies of the world would probably benefit at the expense of the lesser economies.

I would imagine the world's major economies are waiting on the UK's views expectantly, before they make any decisions though

 

[Bold Seagull]

Indeed.

And look into Tufton Street influence, and disgraced former Defence Secretary Liam Fox's chums involved in Atlantic Bridge a while back. Quite a lot of familiar names keep cropping up.

[MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION] doesn't want to read the right wing dominated brexit strategies from 55 Tufton St. that hub of right wing climate change deniers. Much rather post an article of Mandelson on a boat 10 times then face the truth that this is a right wing capitalist ideology. CF actually called it 'radicalism' the other day to [MENTION=14365]Thunder Bolt[/MENTION] I think. I pretty much laughed my coffee over my keyboard.

 

[Stat Brother]

Nailed it!

 

[WATFORD zero]

Finally, so you accept we submit our own tariff rate commitment as part of our schedule, and you accept when the time comes it is the UK that sets its applied tariff import rates as confirmed by Gove when he indicates we wont set import rates for food at 0% but there will be protectionist measures for example on lamb imports, ie we will be choosing the applied import rates ourselves and they may differ across product lines.

The tariff rate commitment which we submit as part of our schedule is the ceiling rate, ie the maximum import rate we will charge on a product and our commitment not to exceed that rate. The applied rate is the rate we will actually apply to imports. Obviously we dont need to set these now as we still dont know the outcome, and the applied rates are not part of our schedule submission. So which rate is it you are referring to as the "WTO default" one.......the ceiling rate or the applied rate?

It's good that you have finally taken an interest in the way the WTO operates, even if it is nearly 3 years too late !

(And Meg always told me you were a shy 'no dealer' so I am glad that's been cleared up)



I'll do this slowly, so you can understand.

These rates are set by the UK 'as confirmed by Gove'

TRUE BUT IRRELEVANT AS OUR SCHEDULES WILL NOT BE PASSED IN 38 DAYS.

We can choose different rates across different product lines.

TRUE BUT IRRELEVANT AS OUR SCHEDULES WILL NOT BE PASSED IN 38 DAYS.

Tariff rate commitments, (both ceiling rate and applied rate) are decided by the UK, together with quotas (which will help explain to you why there are the two rates). This is a method of controlling volumes of imports.

TRUE BUT IRRELEVANT AS OUR SCHEDULES WILL NOT BE PASSED IN 38 DAYS.

I'll try one last time.

Because we don't have any agreed schedules, and will not have in 38 days we will use the WTO 'default tariffs'. There is only one default tariff, because there are no quotas and, therefor, no method of controlling volumes. The UK still has some control. By product, we can decide to charge the default tariff or not charge the default tariff. And whatever we decide applies to all WTO members under the Most-favoured-nation (MFN) rules.


You can keep wittering on with whataboutisms for ever more, but these are the simple facts.

 

[nicko31]

Other than all the talk of trade wars with USA, I had no idea about the actual way the USA operates, so I looked it up. In summary, the USA have submitted revised schedules to the WTO and apparently over 40 WTO members (including all the big players Russia, China, EU, Canada, Brazil, India etc etc ) have objected. Very similar to the UK.

The USA has said that they are going to push ahead and impose them anyway, completely regardless of WTO rules. I guess in the current situation the UK could do the same and start a trade war with the rest of the world to coincide with us leaving the EU ? (If we are going to commit economic suicide, let's do it properly )

The other big economies in the world are now also threatening a trade war in response, also ignoring all WTO rules. So, I guess if this plays out the major economies of the world would probably benefit at the expense of the lesser economies.

I would imagine the world's major economies are waiting on the UK's views expectantly, before they make any decisions though

Don't worry the Commonwealth countries will rally around and help us in our time of need

 

[WATFORD zero]

It's just a relief to know that all the Infrastructure and systems to manage and charge these new import tariffs will currently be well through their User Acceptance Testing and Load Testing and all the staff will currently be getting trained to operate all these new systems, because with 38 days to go, it could be a little tight otherwise.

(Although, obviously, it's all being done in secret because we don't want the EU to know).

At least we are on our way

 

[The Clamp]

We have lost millions of jobs over the years in manufacturing because they simply couldn't compete with countries like China. It's how I lost my job in 1998 as it was cheaper to manufacture the hydraulic valves overseas. It wasn't Brexit then. We just accepted it, moved on, re-skilled.

Yes this piece of news is not good, but there are plenty of other manufacturing businesses popping up that have nothing to do with the automotive industry. This country will change and adapt, jobs will be created in newer technologies like 3D printing, more companies specialising in CNC machined components. It is not the end of the world.

I’m sure that will be a huge consolation to the 3,500 people without a job anymore.

I don’t think you’ll find anyone denying companies have moved countries or made redundancies before.
Of course the difference between what’s gone before and what’s happening now is that this time we have done it to ourselves and it’s all perfectly unnecessary.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I’m sure that will be a huge consolation to the 3,500 people without a job anymore.

I don’t think you’ll find anyone denying companies have moved countries or made redundancies before.
Of course the difference between what’s gone before and what’s happening now is that this time we have done it to ourselves and it’s all perfectly unnecessary.

There is doing it through accidental mismanagement of the economy, or unforeseen downturns etc. Doing it KNOWING this would be the outcome is an entirely different matter.