[Politics] Brexit

[Triggaaar]

I'm not suggesting that at all.

You said if we renegotiate the backstop we'd have to the give some concession to the EU, and you I think Gibraltar would be an easy concession. I'm just saying that isn't an option at all, as it goes against what the people of Gibraltor want. Those people shouldn't be used as a bargaining tool.

There have been two suggestions emerging from Europe: Gibraltar and fishing rights.

I can't imagine the EU in general want us to give Gibraltor to Spain, that wouldn't help the EU at all, it would just appease one country.

Personally, no, I don't think we should ignore the Gibraltarian view but the government could well see differently,

They won't.

 

[Triggaaar]

Given the UK Government and the No Dealers seem quite prepared to rip up the Good Friday Agreement, passed with massive majorities on both sides of the Irish border in referendums, I don't think they really care about previous ones. Apparently all referendums can be challenged except the one which gave them the result they wanted.

The result they wanted? The government didn't want Brexit, they (including the PM) campaigned for remain. The government also don't want to rip up the Good Friday Agreement, and they won't.

 

[CHAPPERS]

It would also set a dangerous precedent, whereby a party is elected, becomes unpopular, and the threat from the public would be 'but we didn't know what we were voting for'.

.

Did you forget that general elections existed?

 

[Gwylan]

You said if we renegotiate the backstop we'd have to the give some concession to the EU, and you I think Gibraltar would be an easy concession. I'm just saying that isn't an option at all, as it goes against what the people of Gibraltor want. Those people shouldn't be used as a bargaining tool.

I can't imagine the EU in general want us to give Gibraltor to Spain, that wouldn't help the EU at all, it would just appease one country.

I was referring to a report that said possible items for renegotiation are fishing rights and Gibraltar. Given that the government has parliamentary authority to renegotiate and if those are the only two items that are being offered, I think it's far more likely that the government would give way on Gibraltar than fishing rights.

Of course, there could be other options on the table (a higher divorce bill for example) but those weren't mentioned in the early reports.

 

[CHAPPERS]

[tweet]1090598941937360898[/tweet]

Go on Theresa, come back with a customs union plan and tell the ERG to **** off. That'll be funny.

 

[Mtoto]

But it's extremely unlikely we'll leave without a deal, and even if we did, a new deal would be made soon afterwards. In the meantime, the people of Gibraltor don't want to be part of Spain, so why make them?

No deal is a 7-2 chance on Betfair. Without wishing to outpedant a pedant, I'm not sure that qualifies as "extremely unlikely".

 

[Dave the OAP]

I was referring to a report that said possible items for renegotiation are fishing rights and Gibraltar. Given that the government has parliamentary authority to renegotiate and if those are the only two items that are being offered, I think it's far more likely that the government would give way on Gibraltar than fishing rights.

Of course, there could be other options on the table (a higher divorce bill for example) but those weren't mentioned in the early reports.

We could offer Spain the Malvinas and they can then give it to the argies.

 

[A1X]

The result they wanted? The government didn't want Brexit, they (including the PM) campaigned for remain.

The Government now, not the Government then. The Government now is much more pro-Brexit, and it is the Government now which is refusing to hold another vote.

The government also don't want to rip up the Good Friday Agreement, and they won't.

The refusal by the Government to rule out No Deal indicates they are happy to if they see it as politically palatable for them to do so. If they were respecting the GFA vote then the onus would be on the Government to pass a deal which respected the GFA terms, else Brexit would not happen.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

No deal is a 7-2 chance on Betfair. Without wishing to outpedant a pedant, I'm not sure that qualifies as "extremely unlikely".

We've found Theresa DisMay's Magic Money Tree !

 

[Lincoln Imp]

We had a vote. The vote was cast. A result was made.

That is democratic.

If we have another vote, there would be a continuance of many of the arguments already common to the debate now. It would not settle anything.

It would also set a dangerous precedent, whereby a party is elected, becomes unpopular, and the threat from the public would be 'but we didn't know what we were voting for'.

Like it or not, we voted to leave the EU, not on the conditions of leaving, and that has fallen upon the government. I am in agreement though that they have made a right cockup.

The question of whether our sovereign parliament should always follow a referendum result, irrespective of what information emerges after the vote, is an interesting one. Offered the hypothesis of a 1937 referendum on the subject of appeasement, one of this thread's more vociferous leavers said that he would rather have seen the Nazis taking over the country three years later than the results of such a referendum being disregarded. (In other words, better see Hitler flattening Westminster than see Westminster treading on one small petal of democracy.)

And of course hardly anyone is now suggesting that parliament simply disregards the 2016 referendum. It would be a matter for the people to decide.

But don't fear BCCM - I'm sure you'll get your way in the current situation.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The question of whether our sovereign parliament should always follow a referendum result, irrespective of what information emerges after the vote, is an interesting one. Offered the hypothesis of a 1937 referendum on the subject of appeasement, one of this thread's more vociferous leavers said that he would rather have seen the Nazis taking over the country three years later than the results of such a referendum being disregarded. (In other words, better see Hitler flattening Westminster than see Westminster treading on one small petal of democracy.)

And of course hardly anyone is now suggesting that parliament simply disregards the 2016 referendum. It would be a matter for the people to decide.

But don't fear BCCM - I'm sure you'll get your way in the current situation.

Given there wasn't a referendum about appeasement in 1937 it's a bit of a stupid analogy.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

To “deal with problems caused by continued risk of No Deal” to Barclays and its clients, British bank giant has won at the High Court (required under FSMA) right to shift €190bn of assets - from UK to Ireland.

Directly cites loss of EEA passport

 

[Two Professors]

We could offer Spain the Malvinas and they can then give it to the argies.

I'd much rather we exchanged Gibraltar for Ceuta,much nicer beach.Or perhaps another of Spain's African possessions,they still have a bit of empire.

 

[Baker lite]

That's very good.I will borrow that,if I may,to wind up some more idiots.Cheers

Fill yer boots,it doesn’t half wind up the twats on Twitter.




On our way.

 

[Two Professors]

Funny, I'm not seeing Remainers being the ones who claim democracy ended in June 2016 and we must never be allowed another vote on the matter again?

Perhaps we could follow election rules and have one every five years?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

We could offer Spain the Malvinas and they can then give it to the argies.

We could just give back NI to Eire and the whole problem of a backstop goes away ?

 

[Two Professors]

Fill yer boots,it doesn’t half wind up the twats on Twitter.




On our way.

And the twits and tweeters on twatter!

 

[JC Footy Genius]

..... Anyone who thinks there will be no border after Brexit is deluded. Not surprisingly, senior Brexit people continue to spin lies and bullshit about how new technology make it unnecessary. It is simply a lie and it is certainly not "egos and political point scoring" preventing it. That is just meaningless shite designed to make you feel better about hating the EU.

Do you think the EU's Chief negotiator Michel Barnier was lying/ bullshitting the other day when he said: "We will have to find an operational way of carrying out checks and controls without putting back in place a border." and "We would be obliged to carry out controls on goods arriving in the Republic of Ireland. My team have worked hard to study how controls can be made paperless or decentralised, which will be useful in all circumstances," in the event of a no deal Brexit?

 

[Two Professors]

We could just give back NI to Eire and the whole problem of a backstop goes away ?

Or Eire could rejoin the Commonwealth.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Trouble in paradise

[tweet]1090605595659509760[/tweet]