[Politics] Brexit

[Green Cross Code Man]

Its quite simple we can't have our cake and eat it, TM's crazy red lines were never going to be compatible with the unique make up of the UK and our Brexit fantasies

I'm afraid when push comes to shove, the future and stability of 450m people across 27 countries will prevail over ride that of 60m people.

I would expect a classic EU fudge. After all the well-being of the European people did not come first when the Euro was implemented. There is no reason on earth that the EU has to be intractable regarding the Irish border whatever Tusk says. Even one of his aides (can't remember the name) says that some kind of deal may be possible.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Many people finding it difficult because the site is for Android phones only. I'm sure it will all turn out right in the end eh? You have more faith than me.

Nothing to stop EU nationals from borrowing a friend's android phone to get their settled status sorted, because this is exactly the same discussion I had with a polish women I was talking too at my daughter's nursery. At the moment it's only taking a couple of days for the people to get their status sorted, but she is waiting for the iPhone version. I told her not to wait.

Please look at the link below as to why there are hold ups with the iPhone version. It looks like this is not the governments fault.

https://www.civilserviceworld.com/a...ettled-status-app-iphone-compatibility-issues

 

[cunning fergus]

Its quite simple we can't have our cake and eat it, TM's crazy red lines were never going to be compatible with the unique make up of the UK and our Brexit fantasies

I'm afraid when push comes to shove, the future and stability of 450m people across 27 countries will prevail over ride that of 60m people.

Economically No deal will damage Europe probably as much it will be damage the UK, but there are 27 of them to share the pain and lets face it they don't need to stockpile supplies.

Then there's the very future of the UK itself, anyone who saw the reaction of Argus Robertson last night to the Tories basically threatening to tear up the GFA just gives you a hint of the turmoil that lies ahead.

Anyone who has any insight regarding how complex deals work would know that if both parties genuinely want a deal then nothing is settled till the final minute. It’s just how it works.

https://business.financialpost.com/...land-walks-out-of-talks-on-eu-free-trade-deal

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-european-union-ceta-trade-provisional-application-1.3715488

The best chance of a good deal is that no deal is possible, that will compel the U.K. and EU to arrive at a deal.........even if it’s right at the last minute.

EU politicians are still politicians, what they say has no value..........both sides have an awful lot in common, no one wants no deal.

 

[nicko31]

I would expect a classic EU fudge. After all the well-being of the European people did not come first when the Euro was implemented. There is no reason on earth that the EU has to be intractable regarding the Irish border whatever Tusk says. Even one of his aides (can't remember the name) says that some kind of deal may be possible.

We'll have to see, but they won't re-open the withdrawal agreement there just isn't the time or the desire with a lot of issues to address. Maybe a few nice words in the political declaration but that will be it

Interesting the kind of language coming out of Ireland, no to the British bullies and talk of the Irish PM's Thatcher like spirit, oh the irony....

 

[Rodney Thomas]

Anyone who has any insight regarding how complex deals work would know that if both parties genuinely want a deal then nothing is settled till the final minute. It’s just how it works.

https://business.financialpost.com/...land-walks-out-of-talks-on-eu-free-trade-deal

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-european-union-ceta-trade-provisional-application-1.3715488

The best chance of a good deal is that no deal is possible, that will compel the U.K. and EU to arrive at a deal.........even if it’s right at the last minute.

EU politicians are still politicians, what they say has no value..........both sides have an awful lot in common, no one wants no deal.

I’d say that’s broadly true but only when both parties have a similar amount to lose. As [MENTION=15360]nicko31[/MENTION] says, that’s not the case between us and the EU. They need us, but not as much as we need them.

 

[beorhthelm]

I would expect a classic EU fudge. After all the well-being of the European people did not come first when the Euro was implemented. There is no reason on earth that the EU has to be intractable regarding the Irish border whatever Tusk says. Even one of his aides (can't remember the name) says that some kind of deal may be possible.

part of the problem seems to be the personalities involved, on both sides, very quick to state what can/cannot happen and paint themselves in to a corner. Tusk could have just stayed quiet or said something neutral, but there's an insistence to grandstand and make policy - thats technically is beyond his power and position - that predetermines the course of action. i've been told Barnier has been bounced into positions by others and not too happy about it.

 

[cunning fergus]

I’d say that’s broadly true but only when both parties have a similar amount to lose. As [MENTION=15360]nicko31[/MENTION] says, that’s not the case between us and the EU. They need us, but not as much as we need them.

That is true, but no deal creates a major problem for Ireland, and let’s be honest will create challenges in EU and U.K. alike.

If politicians on both sides want a deal then I think they will blink.

I may be wrong, but this is difficult for the EU too, do they keep to their red lines and throw a member state Ireland under the bus, or seek a compromise. Here is the eternal problem with the EU, when can national interests of member states Trump the EU’s?

So, there will be tough talking, bicep flexing and willy waving, then a deal will be made.

 

[cunning fergus]

The EU has bilateral agreements with the likes of Switzerland, and with regard to the other Schengen area countries. The EU has hard borders with those not in Schengen or not having common visa / customs agreements. When you say 'without difficulties' - yeah, through striking 'deals'.

Agreed and these are difficult deals to negotiate.......

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politi...le-negotiation-tactics--ubs-chairman/44655660

Lots of tough talking, but life will continue.......the EU won’t shut its borders with Switzerland,

They won’t in NI either.

 

[nicko31]

That is true, but no deal creates a major problem for Ireland, and let’s be honest will create challenges in EU and U.K. alike.

If politicians on both sides want a deal then I think they will blink.

I may be wrong, but this is difficult for the EU too, do they keep to their red lines and throw a member state Ireland under the bus, or seek a compromise. Here is the eternal problem with the EU, when can national interests of member states Trump the EU’s?

So, there will be tough talking, bicep flexing and willy waving, then a deal will be made.

In some ways I'd admire your optimism, but we are talking about an International border.

You seem to forget the creation of the Single market was the foundation of the GFA and 20 years of peace. And you can't compare Switzerland with the Irish situation, sorry...

 

[beorhthelm]

Its quite simple we can't have our cake and eat it, TM's crazy red lines were never going to be compatible with the unique make up of the UK and our Brexit fantasies

I'm afraid when push comes to shove, the future and stability of 450m people across 27 countries will prevail over ride that of 60m people.

Economically No deal will damage Europe probably as much it will be damage the UK, but there are 27 of them to share the pain and lets face it they don't need to stockpile supplies.

Then there's the very future of the UK itself, anyone who saw the reaction of Argus Robertson last night to the Tories basically threatening to tear up the GFA just gives you a hint of the turmoil that lies ahead.

i dont think anyone is asking for cake or other silly cliches. just some more amicable arrangement on a particularly difficult issue thats already covered by other bi-lateral treaties. why do you think its acceptable to risk the entire economy of Europe on this issue?

 

[cunning fergus]

Switzerland is in Schengen and pays the EU to be so.



If the UK defaults to WTO rules (using copied-and-pasted versions of the EU’s tariffs in the short term), the EU would still have to maintain its side of the border. That would require check goods coming into Ireland from the UK.

That’s because the EU’s existence as a free trade area depends on its ability to demonstrate to the WTO that it can control its external borders properly.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factc...the-options-for-the-irish-border-after-brexit

This is all very well, negotiations with Switzerland are in a state of flux with the EU currently stating they will not recognise exiting agreements blah blah blah.

They won’t put up border checks because it’s not in anyone’s interests to do so,

Rules are for the blind obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.....

 

[CHAPPERS]

UK wide customs union is now the only way out of this.

 

[cunning fergus]

In some ways I'd admire your optimism, but we are talking about an International border.

You seem to forget the creation of the Single market was the foundation of the GFA and 20 years of peace. And you can't compare Switzerland with the Irish situation, sorry...

You think the EU won’t budge, I think they will, mainly because they are capitalists, and money franks EU politicians egos.

https://lenews.ch/2019/01/22/internal-eu-letter-says-no-concessions-for-switzerland/

The position the EU has with the Swiss currently can be compared with Brexit.

The U.K. and Switzerland have democratic mandates with regard to their relationship with the EU.

 

[ManOfSussex]

We agreed to the backstop in 2017 and now we want to change it because some Tory Toffs and Orangemen oddballs don't like it but it's all The EU's fault and the Irish really should they place because we're British and better than them and we'll mention World War 2 too at them, but not the troubles.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

We agreed to the backstop in 2017 and now we want to change it because some Tory Toffs and Orangemen oddballs don't like it but it's all The EU's fault and the Irish really should they place because we're British and better than them and we'll mention World War 2 too at them, but not the troubles.

May agreed to the backstop ..... not parliament. So are you now suggesting you don't like the power parliament wields ...... desipte Gina Miller fighting to have it recognised ?

 

[Gwylan]

Looks like May going back for another deal works both ways. Gibraltar probably doesn't mind being a bargaining chip

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-b...ar-from-any-brexit-deal-sources-idUKKCN1PN1YK

 

[ManOfSussex]

Its ok, the Irish will starve and go skint before we do......the EU wouldn't do that to them would they?

A comment like that says a great deal about yours and others attitude to Ireland on Brexit. An ignorant, or in your case deliberate because you're sad enough to find it amusing, reference to the Irish, food and poverty, despite the historical connotations to it. Very reminiscent of your like-minded Brexiteer Priti Patel's comments prior to Christmas that went down like a stone in Ireland. The general condescending attitude to Ireland on Brexit by English Brexiteers like you is revealing - basically they should know their place. Typical English arrogant, faux omnipotence at it's worst.

I appreciate you're stuck in a 1970's time-warp, but I also wonder if you're the sort of person who still finds 'There was an Englishman, an Irishman and a Scotsman' jokes funny? Perhaps you regale middle class friends with those jokes over a fondue set dinner party and a bottle of Blue Nun? (Do they sell Blue Nun in Waitrose or do you go online?)

 

[CHAPPERS]

****ing Tories

[tweet]1090526195354161152[/tweet]

 

[ManOfSussex]

May agreed to the backstop ..... not parliament. So are you now suggesting you don't like the power parliament wields ...... desipte Gina Miller fighting to have it recognised ?

What power does parliament wield? What's going to change?

 

[nicko31]

We agreed to the backstop in 2017 and now we want to change it because some Tory Toffs and Orangemen oddballs don't like it but it's all The EU's fault and the Irish really should they place because we're British and better than them and we'll mention World War 2 too at them, but not the troubles.

14 months and they still have their heads in the sand. The lies and fantasies cannot be delivered, but someone in the ERG announced there was a unicorn over the hill and off the Tories go on yet another chase.

Its been my view on the way along that the government strategy is to demonise the EU for domestic consumption backed up the the right wing press, The reality is the EU position has been clear from day one and isn't going to change.