[Politics] Brexit

[Thunder Bolt]

Taking pleasure from others misfortune, typical remainer logic. My firm announced 13,000 job losses but not because of Brexit, shareholders in our case. Losing your job is not good at the best of times to score points out of it is pretty poor

He said I take no pleasure from that.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Taking pleasure from others misfortune, typical remainer logic. My firm announced 13,000 job losses but not because of Brexit, shareholders in our case. Losing your job is not good at the best of times to score points out of it is pretty poor

Let’s not pretend brexiteers have not been saying the same.

Brexit is worth people losing jobs.

 

[neilbard]

If you believe Vernon, I assume you've also given up meat?

No I haven't given up meat yet. But what I don't do is believe Politicians, Media and most of what's written on NSC but it's all very interesting none the less.

 

[Triggaaar]

They've told us what they are prepared to give against May's criteria for a deal, with a No Deal scenario hanging over them - it hasn't achieved what you're saying it would as position.

No I haven't said it would guarantee success, I've said that negotiating without the prospect of no deal would guarantee failure. My question to you was how do you think we could negotiate with them if No Deal is off the table?

Besides, it doesn't have to be definitive at this point. May could concede to Parliament that should we fail to reach a deal now, we will extend Article 50 to avoid a No Deal on the 29 March. That doesn't rule it out happening at a later date.

May would need the EU's permission to extend Article 50, so if they say no, and May has guaranteed No Deal is off the table, what happens?

And is Corbyn only asking for it to be off the table for the next couple of months? And why the hell is he asking for it to be off the table anyway? You've already said that it was a bluff anyway, so what's Corbyn's problem?

 

[pb21]

So, had remain come out on top and leavers later tried to have another bash via the 'fundamentally flawed' route, just how much credence would you have granted them after the event?

It depends on what the flaw was and what situation we were in, and maybe (likely) not as much as if the boot was on the other foot, as it is. But that doesn't mean that I would be right in not doing so.

 

[nicko31]

Taking pleasure from others misfortune, typical remainer logic. My firm announced 13,000 job losses but not because of Brexit, shareholders in our case. Losing your job is not good at the best of times to score points out of it is pretty poor

Yes BT job loses have nothing to do with Brexit at this stage

I already said I take no pleasure from this at all, just feel for those who were conned. Tell me where the skilled people are going to find another job

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Let’s not pretend brexiteers have not been saying the same.

Brexit is worth people losing jobs.

Plenty of people - selfish morons, in fact - but let's stick with people, for whom the issue is now so tribal, that 'winning' is more important to them than a successful outcome for the nation.

It is terribly sad.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Taking pleasure from others misfortune, typical remainer logic. My firm announced 13,000 job losses but not because of Brexit, shareholders in our case. Losing your job is not good at the best of times to score points out of it is pretty poor

When will a Leaver ever admit that the country’s perilous state has been caused in part by Brexit? If you were unemployed and starving due to blockages at ports, with a pancreas which has exploded due to lack of insulin and unable to leave as you can’t get a VISA to go anywhere I bet you’d still claim it would have happened anyway.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Tell me where the skilled people are going to find another job

Deliveroo? Uber? Foodora? Crime?

 

[Bold Seagull]

No I haven't said it would guarantee success, I've said that negotiating without the prospect of no deal would guarantee failure. My question to you was how do you think we could negotiate with them if No Deal is off the table?

It's in everyone's interests not to have a no deal. Not all negotiations are played out through threats and as adversaries. The bluff has been called anyway, like I said.

May would need the EU's permission to extend Article 50, so if they say no, and May has guaranteed No Deal is off the table, what happens?

Pretty sure we know they would extend Article 50 and have said as much, hasn't there been a ruling that they would?

And is Corbyn only asking for it to be off the table for the next couple of months? And why the hell is he asking for it to be off the table anyway? You've already said that it was a bluff anyway, so what's Corbyn's problem?

Because no deal is being used to threaten MPs across the house to vote for the May deal - you must realise that is the reason it is being retained rather than a negotiating position?

 

[Triggaaar]

It's in everyone's interests not to have a no deal. Not all negotiations are played out through threats and as adversaries. The bluff has been called anyway, like I said.

So you won't answer the question. Ok.

Pretty sure we know they would extend Article 50 and have said as much, hasn't there been a ruling that they would?

No, they said they'd only do it in exceptional circumstances, like a second referendum for example.

Because no deal is being used to threaten MPs across the house to vote for the May deal - you must realise that is the reason it is being retained rather than a negotiating position?

It's being used for both reasons. And you claim on the one hand that the EU have recognised it as a bluff, but on the other hand you're suggesting the MPs might think it's a real threat. That makes no sense. If everyone knows it's a bluff and won't happen, then it makes no difference if it's on the table or not, and Corbyn should just go and discuss a way forward, instead of playing games.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Not all negotiations are played out through threats and as adversaries.

Quite. I’d say it’s a pretty shit way to negotiate....as demonstrated by the government which has repeatedly used this and got nowhere. I’ve negotiated plenty of things in my life and never once used a threat like this. An explanation of what you want is a start, then make a good case. I’ve have seen neither from the government. All I have seen is chaos, arrogance, threats and insults. Surprise surprise it’s got to where we are today....nowhere. More of the same will not work.

 

[dingodan]

It's pretty simple. Remainers want "No Deal" off the table because if it's off the table then the only possible Brexit is with a deal, and they have a veto over any deals.

All they (and the EU) have to do then is refuse all deals ever offered and bingo. No "No Deal" + No to any deal = No Brexit.

It's their way of trying to block Brexit by default. But they refuse to be honest about that.

 

[ManOfSussex]

He’s also basically admitting the whole leave campaign was a lie.

The frightening thing about Sir Bill Cash is, compared to his current, fellow Tory eurosceptic, oddball, spivs, toffs, chancers and freakoids, he's sort of normal. It says so much about the state of politics now to 25 years ago that the Maastricht rebels, that John Redwood thing aside, are sort of normal compared to the ERG today. It's the same with the party leaders:

John Major v Theresa May
John Smith v Jeremy Corbyn
Paddy Ashdown v Vince Cable



It's frightening. We are so up the creek without a paddle as a country.

 

[portslade seagull]

Yes BT job loses have nothing to do with Brexit at this stage

I already said I take no pleasure from this at all, just feel for those who were conned. Tell me where the skilled people are going to find another job

Not helpful but the same way the Typing pools found other jobs or the engineers in heavy manufacturing found other jobs when they drained out of the country in the late 70's/80's under MT. There are jobs out there its finding the right one. Some firms however taking advantage of the situation as its easier to blame Brexit than their own failings

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

It's pretty simple. Remainers want "No Deal" off the table because if it's off the table then the only possible Brexit is with a deal, and they have a veto over any deals.

All they (and the EU) have to do then is refuse all deals ever offered and bingo. No "No Deal" + No to any deal = No Brexit.

It's their way of trying to block Brexit by default. But they refuse to be honest about that.

What about people like Gove that want no deal gone?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It's pretty simple. Remainers want "No Deal" off the table because if it's off the table then the only possible Brexit is with a deal, and they have a veto over any deals.

All they (and the EU) have to do then is refuse all deals ever offered and bingo. No "No Deal" + No to any deal = No Brexit.

It's their way of trying to block Brexit by default. But they refuse to be honest about that.

Codswallop.

 

[dingodan]

Codswallop.

If you are a remainer (or the EU) and "No Deal" is off the table, why would you vote for or agree to any deals?

 

[pb21]

What about people like Gove that want no deal gone?

Or Corbyn.

 

[fanseagull]

The frightening thing about Sir Bill Cash is, compared to his current, fellow Tory eurosceptic, oddball, spivs, toffs, chancers and freakoids, he's sort of normal. It says so much about the state of politics now to 25 years ago that the Maastricht rebels, that John Redwood thing aside, are sort of normal compared to the ERG today. It's the same with the party leaders:

John Major v Theresa May
John Smith v Jeremy Corbyn
Paddy Ashdown v Vince Cable



It's frightening. We are so up the creek without a paddle as a country.

I think the privileged 'Sir Bill Cash' is neither more nor less eccentric than the other toffs with a terminal sense of entitlement.....