[Politics] Brexit

[Chicken Run]

Man: I've been drowning for 2 bloody years, why have you left until now to ask Corbyn to save me!!

Coast Guard enquiry: Mr Corbyn you knew this man was drowning and all you did was blow hot air with no real ideas of your own to save him and hide the fact you wanted him to drown anyway.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

First decide on a deal. Then put it to the people of this deal or remain.

Article 50 shouldn't have ever been invoked until a deal was thrashed out.

This month the EU are passing a law on outlawing tax havens so I wonder why our millionaire political classes were so keen to get out of the EU, they invoked article 50 as soon as they were possibly able. Gina Miller had to go to the High Court to get Parliament to vote on it, as is democratically permissable, instead of Theresa May using Henry VIII powers to go it alone.

The Irony is the people that tried to stop Miller are the ones that benefited from it, hard brexiteers.

 

[ManOfSussex]

The 'reaching out' going well for May then.

Nicola Sturgeon 'won't waste time' talking to May unless PM moves on Brexit

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news...ime-talking-to-may-unless-pm-moves-on-brexit/

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opini...cy-of-westminster-chaos-over-brexit-1-4857675

[tweet]1085823606171418624[/tweet]

 

[Baldseagull]

As per Nigel Evans on BBC News, the Conservative Party are entrenched in defining what Brexit means and ruling out a customs union and a single market arrangement – even though this is still leaving the EU, which is all the referendum asked. So it is okay for one party to draw distinct lines in the sand, but when the rest of the house wants a line in the sand against a no deal, they are not serving the public interest.

The Conservatives are obsessed with this leaving the EU that enables them to make these imaginary trade deals around the world that take decades to thrash out, rather than realise a Brexit that leaves the EU fulfilling the referendum result, but leaving us closely aligned with the EU as per the wishes of the 48% is most likely the true democratic solution.

Neither one is serving the public interest, other parties leaders have made the same demand of No Deal being dropped but have still gone to talk. It might be the right tack to take, in the Tory/Labour battle for hearts and minds, but I don't think so, and it certainly is no help in serving the countries interests.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Coast Guard enquiry: Mr Corbyn you knew this man was drowning and all you did was blow hot air with no real ideas of your own to save him and hide the fact you wanted him to drown anyway.

Customs union and single market and leaving the EU. Seems fairly clear.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Labour Party split every bit as much as the Tories, and indeed the electorate as a whole. It's a genuinely unresolvable mess. Maybe better to just crash out without a deal, if only to unblock the business of addressing the very many other major issues that affect the country. Retaining a firm end date on the poxy thing seems to me the only way of prevent total paralysis of the parliamentary process. Or do we just keep the talking shop going forever to the increasing disgust of the electorate?

 

[Chicken Run]

Labour Party split every bit as much as the Tories, and indeed the electorate as a whole. It's a genuinely unresolvable mess. Maybe better to just crash out without a deal, if only to unblock the business of addressing the very many other major issues that affect the country. Retaining a firm end date on the poxy thing seems to me the only way of prevent total paralysis of the parliamentary process. Or do we just keep the talking shop going forever to the increasing disgust of the electorate?

Have to agree with this.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

The 'reaching out' going well for May then.

Nicola Sturgeon 'won't waste time' talking to May unless PM moves on Brexit

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news...ime-talking-to-may-unless-pm-moves-on-brexit/

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opini...cy-of-westminster-chaos-over-brexit-1-4857675

[tweet]1085823606171418624[/tweet]

Same lines as the Lib Dems, she has no interest.

This is all about trying to share the blame, hopefully the parties will see through it.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Labour Party split every bit as much as the Tories, and indeed the electorate as a whole. It's a genuinely unresolvable mess. Maybe better to just crash out without a deal, if only to unblock the business of addressing the very many other major issues that affect the country. Retaining a firm end date on the poxy thing seems to me the only way of prevent total paralysis of the parliamentary process. Or do we just keep the talking shop going forever to the increasing disgust of the electorate?

Or withdraw Article 50 and actually sort it out.

Do proper planning so no deal is actually a proper threat

 

[neilbard]

 

[ManOfSussex]

Same lines as the Lib Dems, she has no interest.

This is all about trying to share the blame, hopefully the parties will see through it.

See what happens next week in the run up to the 29th. This is all very fast moving now. - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...may-let-mps-decide-or-well-quit-a4041716.html

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Right, so you are saying that these positive decisions were taken despite Brexit.

& The negative decision of Hitachi was taken because of it.

Typical.

Maybe you'll believe the man himself.

[tweet]1085807960952004608[/tweet]

 

[A1X]

Worth remembering what happens this Saturday

https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...um-brexit-no-deal-crossover-day-a8541576.html

 

[Baldseagull]

Labour Party split every bit as much as the Tories, and indeed the electorate as a whole. It's a genuinely unresolvable mess. Maybe better to just crash out without a deal, if only to unblock the business of addressing the very many other major issues that affect the country. Retaining a firm end date on the poxy thing seems to me the only way of prevent total paralysis of the parliamentary process. Or do we just keep the talking shop going forever to the increasing disgust of the electorate?

Both Mays deal and No Deal keep Brexit very much the first order of business in Parliament for the foreseeable future, No Deal is not a sustainable position, it would bring round after round of bi-lateral agreements to put before Parliament. Mays deal will bring years of trade talks, that will have at least one election in the middle of them. Brexit is not going away anytime soon.

 

[cunning fergus]

Forgot to post this when he said it a few days ago, but David Lammy nailed Brexit for me:

Brexit is a con, a trick, a swindle, a fraud, a deception that will hurt most of those people it promised to help, a dangerous fantasy which will make every problem it claims to solve worse ...
Friends on this side of the House tell me to appease Labour voters in industrial towns - the former miners, the factory workers, those who feel they’ve been left behind. I say we must not patronise them with cowardice, let’s tell them the truth - you were sold a lie.
Immigrants have not taken your jobs, our schools and colleges failed to give you the skills, hospitals are not crumbling because of health tourists but decades of austerity that ground them down to the bone, you cannot afford a house because both parties failed to build, not because of Mohammed down the road who moved in, and wealth was hoarded in London when it should have been shared across the country.
Blame us, blame Westminster, do not blame Brussels for our own country’s mistakes and do not be angry at us for telling you the truth, be angry at the chancers who sold you a lie ...
Just as I speak plainly to the government this time around, let me also speak to the pposition about some home truths. There is no leftwing justification for Brexit.
Ditching workers’ rights, social protections and ending environmental cooperation is not progressive.
This is a project about neo-liberal deregulation, it’s Thatcherism on steroids pushed by her modern-day disciples.
Leaving the EU will not free us from the injustices of global capitalism, it will make us subordinate to Trump’s US.
Socialism confined to one country will not work, whether you like it or not, the world we live in is global, we can only fix the rigged system if we cooperate across border lines.
The party of Keir Hardie has always been international. We must not let down our young supporters by failing to stand with them at the biggest issue of our lives.

If we understand anything about the EU it is that socialism is not part of of modus operandi.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/art...-against-every-european-treaty-dennis-skinner

Lammy is just part of the problem, he’s a Blairite.......he wouldnt know socialism if it walked up to him and punched in the face.

 

[BensGrandad]

What I dont understand, perhaps somebody can put me right, but MPs are well educated intelligent people in the main so how can any such person (a) advocate a 2nd referendum (b) consider such a move. Do we keep having referendums until we get the result that the majority of MPs want.

 

[pb21]

What I dont understand, perhaps somebody can put me right, but MPs are well educated intelligent people in the main so how can any such person (a) advocate a 2nd referendum (b) consider such a move. Do we keep having referendums until we get the result that the majority of MPs want.

(a) because the situation is fundamentally different to that three years ago and the question asked would be fundamentally different too.
(b) see above.

And no we don't have to keep having referendums until we get the result that the majority of MPs want. We don't even have to have another and didn't have to have the first.

 

[Baldseagull]

If we understand anything about the EU it is that socialism is not part of of modus operandi.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/art...-against-every-european-treaty-dennis-skinner

Lammy is just part of the problem, he’s a Blairite.......he wouldnt know socialism if it walked up to him and punched in the face.

You cannot ignore the rest of the world and create an isolated island of Socialism, well you can, but it would look a bit like North Korea. We need people like you, but it will be less hardcore and more pragmatic people that get somewhere. In short, don't change, but forgive me for being more realistic.

 

[Baldseagull]

What I dont understand, perhaps somebody can put me right, but MPs are well educated intelligent people in the main so how can any such person (a) advocate a 2nd referendum (b) consider such a move. Do we keep having referendums until we get the result that the majority of MPs want.

Just add it to the list of things you don't understand.

 

[BensGrandad]

(a) because the situation is fundamentally different to that three years ago and the question asked would be fundamentally different too.
(b) see above.

And no we don't have to keep having referendums until we get the result that the majority of MPs want. We don't even have to have another and didn't have to have the first.

It is or was inevitable that the situation would change as would the voting majority but having had the vote with what was available at the time and who was eligible that should be the end of it.