[Politics] Brexit

[Baker lite]

Yes we are seeing through project fear 2! That is why people are starting to see the lies of the Brexiteers. The traitorous MPs are all for brexit and project fear so I don't see your point?
Face it, the brexit snowflakes will lose and it will not happen. Your EU free safe space will not happen.

Ooh dear, have you been at the Sherry?...


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[dingodan]

They won't get enough voted to get in on a FPTP system lile that.

The Conservative government were elected by around 13.5 million people.

 

[dingodan]

It is a good job the UK does not have any unelected chambers, otherwise it would be like throwing stones in a glass house...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

& We have an unelected chamber.

The EU have an unelected Executive.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Ooh dear, have you been at the Sherry?...


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Plooks must be far too young to drink (especially sherry) perhaps he's been on the Red Bull?

 

[dingodan]

What!? Juat saying that if you are against the EU for that reason why have you are happy to be ruled by the same system here? Why not campaign to get that changed?

I'm not a fan of the HoL, I've never said I was.

& The power of the Lords to reject a bill passed by the House of Commons is restricted by the Parliament Acts.

& The EU Commission is the Executive branch of the government.

There is no comparison, and even if their was, an undemocratic aspect of UK governance is not an excuse for accepting the undemocratic nature of the EU Commission, which again, is the executive.

 

[Mellotron]

The actual figure is 56% - 44% of our exports are to the EU (53% of our imports are from the EU)

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7851

Please, no facts here. #ProjectFear

 

[Diablo]

You agree with me then....

 

[dingodan]

Please, no facts here. #ProjectFear

That post did not relate to my post.

It's as I said. 92% of our economy is not related to trade with the EU. 84% of our economy has nothing to do with international trade at all.

You would think, listening to the hysteria, that 50% or our economy related to trade with the EU. It's 8%.

 

[ManOfSussex]

UKIP will promise to repeal the European Communities Act. Instant exit from the EU. They will have a sympathetic (and very angry) audience of about 17 million potential voters.

So you think 'a sympathetic (and very angry) audience of about 17 million potential voters' would consider voting for a UKIP party now led by Gerard Batten ably assisted by his new super best friend, Stephen Yaxley-Lennon and which is now basically just a latter day version of the National Front from the 1970's, with Muslims replacing Jamaicans as the obsession of their bile?

Okay mate.

 

[dingodan]

Ok, well why not campaign to change it? Why the "I don't like so we should leave" schoolboy taking his ball home hissy fit?
Why do you not back us enough to make change in the world? I believe we can, I believe that if we are right and we fight for that we can make good change in the EU and wider world! Running away and hiding wont do that!

How would you make change in the EU? With a vote? no. Your MEP? no.

Even our Prime Minister (DC) tried to make change. He was laughed out of the room.

Nobody has a meaningful say in the EU except the President and his selected Commissioners.

 

[Ernest]

May giving her big speech in the commons, in her own words 'Nothing has changed'

 

[dingodan]

So you think 'a sympathetic (and very angry) audience of about 17 million potential voters' would consider voting for a UKIP party now led by Gerard Batten ably assisted by his new super best friend, Stephen Yaxley-Lennon and which is now basically just a latter day version of the National Front from the 1970's, with Muslims replacing Jamaicans as the obsession of their bile?

Okay mate.

I think your suggestion that they are like the National Front is stupid. But that is the argument that will be made, and because it is stupid it will be ignored. & any legitimate concerns about UKIP will fall by the wayside because you made such stupid claims the basis of your argument.

Would leave voters vote for UKIP? I don't know. But angry people who feel betrayed will do funny things.

Nobody expected Brexit. Nobody expected Trump.

Reverse Brexit and this is the risk you are taking, and you will be responsible for what happens next.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

That post did not relate to my post.

It's as I said. 92% of our economy is not related to trade with the EU. 84% of our economy has nothing to do with international trade at all.

You would think, listening to the hysteria, that 50% or our economy related to trade with the EU. It's 8%.

Take your point BUT the fall in GNP from the inevitable reduction in trade (and investment) that will follow Brexit will have a knock-on - Economics 101, 'multiplier'- effect to the whole economy. Think of a chip shop near the Nissan factory in Middlesbrough and the guy who services the car of the chip shop owner and...………………...

 

[Baldseagull]

My argument is (obviously) not that we shouldn't elect our law makers. It's the opposite.

If someone bad gets elected, the you can elect someone good next time around. They are accountable and removable.

The EU Commission are not elected, and they are not removable either.

They are removable, by the EU Parliament, and their appointment is approved by the Parliament. This is more democratic than our PM and cabinet ministers choosing their own advisors in my opinion, whom are very much responsible for large amounts of policy put forward.
Who voted for Nick Timothy or Fiona Hill?

 

[dingodan]

They are removable, by the EU Parliament, and their appointment is approved by the Parliament. This is more democratic than our PM and cabinet ministers choosing their own advisors in my opinion, whom are very much responsible for large amounts of policy put forward.
Who voted for Nick Timothy or Fiona Hill?

When in this country Parliament can give indications but the Executive has the final say. When in this country Parliment can approve but cannot propose legislation, only the Government can.

Then there will be a comparison.

 

[Baldseagull]

I know how we get rid of a Prime Minister we don't like in the country.

How is it that we get rid of an EU Commission/er which we don't like?

Incase you weren't aware, the Prime Minister doesn't have the final say in this country, Parliament does. In the EU the Parliament doesn't have the final say, the (unelected) Commission does.

No law is passed without being approved in the Parliament, it has the final say.

 

[cunning fergus]

So which ones in particular do you not like?

If you don't like the idea of the UK Government having to take rules from other bodies then we'll presumably have to leave basically every international organisation there is, including the UN and WTO?

I dont like or agree with any EU Regulations, such the General Data Protection Regulation, the Markets in Financial Instruments Regulation etc. If it ends in an R I don’t like it or agree with it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_(European_Union)

The EU used to “govern” by Directives which had to be transposed by the Govts of member states, this meant Govts and respective Parliaments had authority to implement as they saw fit, in the UK for example we tended to gold plate EU Directives. I wouldn’t agree with them but at least they recognise the authority of member states Govts. EU Regulations are different and since Lisbon Treaty/2008 they are now the principal legislative tool of the EU Commission. EU Regulations go straight on the statute book without approval by the U.K. Govt or Parliament.

In my view the use of Regulations gets to the guts of the Leave campaign missive “take back control” and therefore I (as many others do who voted leave) expect HM Parliament to be supreme in making laws for the UK. In the case of Regulations HM Parliament is subordinate to the EU. This is unacceptable.

In every other organisation you highlight we are members, and not subordinate to another unelected law making executive.

 

[golddene]

already covered

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The EU President is elected by MEPs. But the EU President is proposed by the European Council first. Only proposed candidates can be elected. The EU Commissioners are selected by the President.

Same with law. The EU Parliement can vote on laws (votes are not binding on the Commission). & The laws voted on must first be proposed by the Commission. The EU Parliment cannot propose legislation.

The EU is made to appear like a democracy on the surface, but in practical reality it is far from it.

Who votes for the House of Lords? Who votes for our government ministers? The EU is more democratically elected than our own Parliament.

 

[cunning fergus]

No law is passed without being approved in the Parliament, it has the final say.

Wrong, EU Regulations don’t.

If you don’t like GDPR then don lobby your MP, try one your six MEPs.

He or She will tell you that all the EU Parliament does is approve laws......the law makers are the Commission.

They are not elected, but selected.