[Politics] Brexit

[Thunder Bolt]

It was a very different world. People bought most of the goods from local shops, which tended to have local suppliers. People ate seasonal food - the idea that we'd have strawberries in December would have been alien to most of us.

As we were pretty self-sufficient in food, had our own fishing fleets and a plentiful supply of coal, we needed to import far less. We now produce about 60% of our own food, so that alone adds to pressure on the ports.

On top of that, we had a big light engineering section, based mainly in the West Midlands, a thriving textile industry in the north and many motor manufacturers, again reducing the need to import. The car industry would have bought pretty much all its parts locally, for example - it's very different now.

You also have to consider that we had many more docks about 50 years ago - London docks handled about 40 percent of the UK's trade at one point - that's all gone (my father-in-law is an ex-docker and will tell many tales about the heyday of London's docks). Other docks have gone or have been scaled down so the traffic we have coming through ports now is concentrated on a few pinch points.

And don't forget, before we joined the EEC, we were a member of EFTA, so we already had a free trade agreement in place with many European countries as well as trade agreements with the Commonwealth.

You can't really turn the clock back to what it was like then, it was a very different world.

In a nutshell. It's not just food. The vast majority of insulin (90%) we use, comes from Denmark.
The government could have used the last 33 months sorting out trade deals so the exit could be as smooth as a messed up exit could be, but so many ministers have resigned without sorting out anything, it has come to panic, last minute, measures, which may, or may not work.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

As a nation we are on the right side of History, this is going to be a FANTASTIC year for the British people.
We are on our way.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Historically Britain became the foremost global power because of a combination of technological innovation, the application of clear, if ruthless and cynical, political strategies and the ability to use and understand developing capitalist markets. You can argue about the rights and wrongs of what we created but it was efficient. It also required listening to experts.
There is no evidence of any of these being applied to the Brexit process just blind faith and that will never be enough. Anyone raising any specific issues sees them dumped in the Project Fear bucket which is our version of Fake News. Before this period of expansion we were a backwater and we can be again. These things don’t just happen because of our genetic makeup.

 

[melias shoes]

Nothing's ever as simple as it looks but I agree with you. The activities of the British government from 80 years ago, with the people at its shoulder, should be a matter of pride.

There's a relevant subtext to the way British policy developed in the immediate prewar years. Although public opinion eventually swung round it was originally firmly in favour of turning its back on Europe and letting Hitler get on with whatever he was up to. If there had been a referendum on how to deal with German rearmament in (say) 1937 then 'appeasement' would have almost certainly won the day. In those circumstances should the Conservative Party have simply acquiesced and signed a peace treaty with Hitler? With the PM standing on the steps of Number 10 and announcing that 'appeasement means appeasement'? And, two and a half years after the referendum and with the situation becoming clearer by the day, should a new PM have refused to change that position?

And finally, if he did change his position, would the familiar faces be on here accusing Churchill, Halifax, whoever it was, of being an undemocratic loon?

Jesus wept you remainers really do write/say absolutely anything to suit your agenda. What you've written there is totally irrelevant. Totally ridiculous comparison. Incredible.

 

[beorhthelm]

im curious about something, are people saying we should not have any contingency in place, in case parliament/PM/whoever dont sort out the prefered dont leave/leave deal options? its odd because people commended the europeans for having contingencies, then we criticise our planning. seems symptomic of our politics, nothings ever done right.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

im curious about something, are people saying we should not have any contingency in place, in case parliament/PM/whoever dont sort out the prefered dont leave/leave deal options? its odd because people commended the europeans for having contingencies, then we criticise our planning. seems symptomic of our politics, nothings ever done right.

We should have every contingency in place, tried and tested.

Failing Grayling is not the individual who inspires any confidence, of course.

Gagging orders relevant to contingency planning though are really less than helpful.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Jesus wept you remainers really do write/say absolutely anything to suit your agenda. What you've written there is totally irrelevant. Totally ridiculous comparison. Incredible.

I'm not sure why you say that, but fair enough if that's your view.

I was saying that a snapshot view of public opinion doesn't necessarily align with the national interest. Others were talking about WW2 and so I used the situation in the later '30s to make my point. There is no doubt that the majority public view at that time (energetically promoted by the Daily Mail) was that we shouldn't get involved in the Hitler business. A referendum would presumably have reflected that view and if Chamberlain (a reluctant rearmer) had used the 'will of the people' as a prop for the next two and a half years then history would have been rather different.

I'm interested in why you think this is irrelevant, ridiculous and incredible.

 

[vegster]

Historically Britain became the foremost global power because of a combination of technological innovation, the application of clear, if ruthless and cynical, political strategies and the ability to use and understand developing capitalist markets. You can argue about the rights and wrongs of what we created but it was efficient. It also required listening to experts.
There is no evidence of any of these being applied to the Brexit process just blind faith and that will never be enough. Anyone raising any specific issues sees them dumped in the Project Fear bucket which is our version of Fake News. Before this period of expansion we were a backwater and we can be again. These things don’t just happen because of our genetic makeup.

The world has changed much since we were world leaders, you can't click your heels together and go back.

Where are the high wage jobs going to sprout from? We have virtually no heavy industry and our manufacturing base is getting smaller. We rely on " Invisible Earnings " in order to balance the books, the only growth we see is the endless rise in the numbers of coffee shops staffed by students on minimum wage.

As for being on the " Right Side of History "? I think it's pretty clear from the last 10 years that we are merely " History ".

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

https://youtu.be/i5WJrFjHdVU............ 2019
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NEqlh5cCyg
regards
DR

 

[Two Professors]

I'm not sure why you say that, but fair enough if that's your view.

I was saying that a snapshot view of public opinion doesn't necessarily align with the national interest. Others were talking about WW2 and so I used the situation in the later '30s to make my point. There is no doubt that the majority public view at that time (energetically promoted by the Daily Mail) was that we shouldn't get involved in the Hitler business. A referendum would presumably have reflected that view and if Chamberlain (a reluctant rearmer) had used the 'will of the people' as a prop for the next two and a half years then history would have been rather different.

I'm interested in why you think this is irrelevant, ridiculous and incredible.

You appear to be missing a large part of the scene from the 1930/40's as the Germans weren't alone in wanting to rule the world by conquest.



Europe loves to sprout dictators who think their view is best.It is Great Britain's role to tell them to get stuffed.

 

[fanseagull]

Only if you get off seeing people made poorer and with less freedom.

He won't see it, even if it is staring him in the face. I am sure a couple of my friends who have just been made redundant as a consequence of looming Brexit would try and persuade him that his breezy, facile optimism is misplaced - but he is obviously under no threat and so doesn't care.....
Ironically the rapidly emerging triumphalism from several Brexiteers (some on here) is almost guaranteed to ensure the country remains fractured and disagreeable for years to come.

Whatever happens, we will need some way to come together; such vacuous, chauvinistic displays will never do it.

 

[Two Professors]

The world has changed much since we were world leaders, you can't click your heels together and go back.

Where are the high wage jobs going to sprout from? We have virtually no heavy industry and our manufacturing base is getting smaller. We rely on " Invisible Earnings " in order to balance the books, the only growth we see is the endless rise in the numbers of coffee shops staffed by students on minimum wage.

As for being on the " Right Side of History "? I think it's pretty clear from the last 10 years that we are merely " History ".

And for the last 10 years and more,we have been declining in the EU.Time to leave nanny behind,and grow up.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

You appear to be missing a large part of the scene from the 1930/40's as the Germans weren't alone in wanting to rule the world by conquest.


Europe loves to sprout dictators who think their view is best.It is Great Britain's role to tell them to get stuffed.

And you appear to have entirely missed the point.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A very interesting lecture from Sir Ivan Rogers at Liverpool University. You can either listen via audio or read the transcript. Nine categories laying out the truth of Brexit with plain facts.

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/1...N3szQCb-55c9VWzXUlbkJMzeCd2aQ0MQWg_sfanKJoQ44

 

[Two Professors]

He won't see it, even if it is staring him in the face. I am sure that a couple of my friends who have just been made redundant as a consequence of Brexit would try - but he is obviously under no threat and doesn't care.....

I dare say some of your best European friends have been beaten up by Brexit supporters,and threatened with extradition.Tell us a story,Jackanory.

 

[Two Professors]

And you appear to have entirely missed the point.

As you were around at the time,you really would know what was happening,wouldn't you?

 

[fanseagull]

You're the one with all the stories - you carry on telling them, but don't expct to win new friends and influence people.... you're not very good at that

 

[fanseagull]

I dare say some of your best European friends have been beaten up by Brexit supporters,and threatened with extradition.Tell us a story,Jackanory.

You're the one with all the stories - you carry on telling them, but don't expect to win new friends and influence people.... you're not very good at that

 

[Mental Lental]

A very interesting lecture from Sir Ivan Rogers at Liverpool University. You can either listen via audio or read the transcript. Nine categories laying out the truth of Brexit with plain facts.

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/1...N3szQCb-55c9VWzXUlbkJMzeCd2aQ0MQWg_sfanKJoQ44

This has been posted on here before but it deserves a relike. Anyone that can watch or read the transcript of that lecture and still think Brexit is a good idea is quite frankly beyond help.

 

[Baldseagull]

You appear to be missing a large part of the scene from the 1930/40's as the Germans weren't alone in wanting to rule the world by conquest.

View attachment 103434

Europe loves to sprout dictators who think their view is best.It is Great Britain's role to tell them to get stuffed.

I agree, we should tell Putin to get stuffed, we won't go down a path his money has pushed us towards.