[Politics] Brexit

[Thunder Bolt]

As far as I'm aware nobody has stated settled status is the same as citizenship - it isn't. One gives the right to stay, one gives you full rights as if you'd been born in the UK. A similar system is used the world over - even other EU countries use it. I'm not mocking her concerns, I even conceded there are valid issues with the system, but to use the reason that she didn't want a serial number or to be on a register is daft in the extreme. I don't even blame the lady in question .... I suspect her daughter fed her the line. Strange though, it seems perfectly OK for remainers to mock leavers concerns .... pot, kettle and black ?

Show me one post where I have mocked leavers.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Not at all, you’re conflating two slightly different things. Yes I have questioned why the U.K. has never kept tabs on who lives in the county. But the system I’m talking about is a simple and free register where you rock up to the local council and tell them your address. It’s compulsory, it’s free, and there’s no questions asked and it’s not related to immigration as such. And the whole point I raised this is so the government would not need to now reach out to the hundreds of thousands, if not millions (let’s face it, due to a lack of register we don’t really know do we?) and ask them to all apply for a new immigration status via an app. I expect to be asked my intent in Germany, but to then let the Germans roll over my rights into my new status for me. I do not expect to have to re-apply to carry on living here.....and especially to not do it via a clunky error prone bug ridden Home Office app.

That said, they haven’t released exactly what they intend to do yet.

£65 for 3 million EU workers (known because they are here working and paying taxes) is a nice little earner, but then it can all go horribly wrong like Windrush detaining people who had a legal right to be here. That's not forgetting £32.50 for each child born to that EU national.


Besides the Windrush scandal, there is also this.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...enied-citizenship-after-almost-40-years-in-uk

 

[cjd]

Fair enough, I didn’t see that. When I’m wrong I’m happy to admit it.

You must spend 99% of your life being happy then.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You must spend 99% of your life being happy then.

Yes, pretty much. I don’t have much to complain about. Although I’m struggling to decide where to go for my lunch today; the agony of choice.

 

[WATFORD zero]

He isnt my friend, he is a tosser...................obviously.
I wouldnt tell you if i had or hadnt..........ive never felt the urge to be a part of generation snowflake and share useless personal info online....... i find it very sad, i understand though some people crave attention online since they are very lonely in the real world. Hence usernames like grizzlinggammon who desperately seek interaction of any kind and get angry when their sad little world is exposed

Maybe you could just imagine reporting him ..... everyone's a winner

 

[pastafarian]

£65 for 3 million EU workers (known because they are here working and paying taxes) is a nice little earner, but then it can all go horribly wrong like Windrush detaining people who had a legal right to be here. That's not forgetting £32.50 for each child born to that EU national.
]

Where did you get the 3 million known workers all paying taxes figure from.
The ONS release regular figures, latest estimates

2,250,000(16+) EU nationals working
86,000 (16+) EU nationals unemployed
135,000 (16-64) Economically inactive (students)
265,000 (16-64) Economically inactive (non students)

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentan...cles/ukandnonukpeopleinthelabourmarket/latest

Besides the Windrush scandal, there is also this.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...enied-citizenship-after-almost-40-years-in-uk

She has now had her citizenship approved, her initial claim was refused because a permanent residence card was not with her application, the issue was cleared up and rectified ……she said herself "I'm really grateful that it's been sorted reasonably quickly”.

 

[pastafarian]

So that’s a no then.

You really are all mouth...and comprehensively owned by [MENTION=37825]GrizzlingGammon[/MENTION]

No, its i wouldnt tell you if i had or not.......can you not take English lessons in Berlin?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No, its i wouldnt tell you if i had or not.......can you not take English lessons in Berlin?

When making sarcastic comments about one’s level of English, it’s not advisable to litter your own sentence with errors.

 

[pastafarian]

When making sarcastic comments about one’s level of English, it’s not advisable to litter your own sentence with errors.

If you find an English teacher perhaps ask them to explain English comprehension as a matter of urgency.

 

[pastafarian]

Not really a massive u turn is it? Slightly different to getting people to register as they arrive than telling people who might have lived here longer than me (I turn 40 next year) to go and register.

It is, and its endemic of remainers and their hypocrisy.......first of all moaning EU citizens did not have to register within a timeframe after arriving and now moaning that EU citizens who have arrived will have to register
There is no EU set up that requires EU citizens to register as they arrive at the border crossing.

 

[Baldseagull]

It is, and its endemic of remainers and their hypocrisy.......first of all moaning EU citizens did not have to register within a timeframe after arriving and now moaning that EU citizens who have arrived will have to register
There is no EU set up that requires EU citizens to register as they arrive at the border crossing.

“There will be no change for EU citizens already lawfully resident in the UK. These EU citizens will automatically be granted indefinite leave to remain in the UK and will be treated no less favourably than they are at present”. Statement by Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Priti Patel and Gisela Stuart, 1 June 2016

Having to apply and pay for settled status seems like the opposite of automatically granted to me, and the status is less favourable than their current status.
If it doesn't bother you to deviate from what the Leave Campaigners said would happen, can we not just stay in the single market and keep free movement of people?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

There is no EU set up that requires EU citizens to register as they arrive at the border crossing.

No. But some countries do have a requirement to register if your intent is to stay or you have stayed more than three months...which ever comes first.

 

[pastafarian]

“There will be no change for EU citizens already lawfully resident in the UK. These EU citizens will automatically be granted indefinite leave to remain in the UK and will be treated no less favourably than they are at present”. Statement by Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Priti Patel and Gisela Stuart, 1 June 2016

Having to apply and pay for settled status seems like the opposite of automatically granted to me, and the status is less favourable than their current status.
If it doesn't bother you to deviate from what the Leave Campaigners said would happen, can we not just stay in the single market and keep free movement of people?

If they are lawfully resident and when they get settled status they can stay for as long as they like( indefinitely as it were) They can continue to work, use the NHS, be educated, access benefits and pensions and apply for citizenship when eligible. You obviously have to put a system in place to check they automatically qualify for settled status and someone has to pay for the process, visas, permits and the such like are not free You could argue the British taxpayer should pay but the EU and UK came to a reciprocal agreement otherwise on citizens, and ive heard no convincing argument why the host taxpayers should pay. In fairness if the bill was put on British taxpayers the remoaners would have moaned like hell about the “cost of brexit” so probably best to swerve their anger and let them be happy our own taxpayers are not paying. Im sure you lot can set up a crowdfunding campaign and pay for them if you feel that strongly.
So there is no deviation then, they wont have EU citizen status in a EU country for obvious reasons, but not sure why you think their EU rights should apply in a non EU country.Im sure those that think its better to be a EU citizen in non EU Britain than a EU citizen in a EU country will stay here and be grateful they can.

 

[pastafarian]

No. But some countries do have a requirement to register if your intent is to stay or you have stayed more than three months...which ever comes first.

I know, but there is no requirement or even a set up that allows you to request EU nationals to register "as they arrive" at the border, which is what i was responding to.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I know, but there is no requirement or even a set up that allows you to request EU nationals to register "as they arrive" at the border, which is what i was responding to.

You’ve lost me. And I’m bored wth you and your tedious and deliberate obtuseness. Have a good night.

 

[pastafarian]

You’ve lost me. And I’m bored wth you and your tedious and deliberate obtuseness. Have a good night.

I fully realise much goes over your head due to your lack of understanding and you get fed up looking stupid with your daft posts.

 

[Baldseagull]

If they are lawfully resident and when they get settled status they can stay for as long as they like( indefinitely as it were) They can continue to work, use the NHS, be educated, access benefits and pensions and apply for citizenship when eligible. You obviously have to put a system in place to check they automatically qualify for settled status and someone has to pay for the process, visas, permits and the such like are not free You could argue the British taxpayer should pay but the EU and UK came to a reciprocal agreement otherwise on citizens, and ive heard no convincing argument why the host taxpayers should pay. In fairness if the bill was put on British taxpayers the remoaners would have moaned like hell about the “cost of brexit” so probably best to swerve their anger and let them be happy our own taxpayers are not paying. Im sure you lot can set up a crowdfunding campaign and pay for them if you feel that strongly.
So there is no deviation then, they wont have EU citizen status in a EU country for obvious reasons, but not sure why you think their EU rights should apply in a non EU country.Im sure those that think its better to be a EU citizen in non EU Britain than a EU citizen in a EU country will stay here and be grateful they can.

Not what they said would happen though is it. The British taxpayer will be paying for the EU citizens working in the NHS, and possibly other public service jobs. Another hit on NHS budgets.

 

[pastafarian]

Not what they said would happen though is it. The British taxpayer will be paying for the EU citizens working in the NHS, and possibly other public service jobs. Another hit on NHS budgets.

Yes it is,they said if they are legally entitled to be here they will automatically have indefinite leave to remain, settled status allows them to stay here as long as they want(indefinitely ), all we have to do is check they are legally entitled to be here and then they will automatically have settled status. I hope you are not saying they should be exempt from any checks(including criminal ones) to see if they are entitled.

 

[Blue3]

Just listening to Neil MacGregger on radio 4 talking about how the rest of the world views us the British, the German Prime minister was saying he thought the way we view the past is fundamentally different to how they see the past ours we see as a glorious past while Germany sees their past as dark times, and that it is these views projected onto the two countries views of Europe and the EU, Britan harking back to a glorious past while Germany looks to the future to ensure the past is never repeated

This made me think this was not always the case once Germany through collective madness made terrible decisions when the Nazis looked back at Germany's glorious past to find their way forward I doubt many if any at the start thought that this would ultimately lead to the deaths of over 30 million.

Britans past had lots of moments that are glorious and in resent times the Second World War is one of them that we should be rightly proud but we also need to remember that not all of our past was glorious our role in Slavery, we invented concentration camps, support of apartheid South Africa, To name but a few.

Will our collective decision to leave the EU end up resulting in us very much like the Germans looking back at history as dark times.

 

[fanseagull]

Just listening to Neil MacGregger on radio 4 talking about how the rest of the world views us the British, the German Prime minister was saying he thought the way we view the past is fundamentally different to how they see the past ours we see as a glorious past while Germany sees their past as dark times, and that it is these views projected onto the two countries views of Europe and the EU, Britan harking back to a glorious past while Germany looks to the future to ensure the past is never repeated

Yes, I listened to that programme with interest. All subjective I suppose, but I tend to agree with the analysis of the German Prime Minister.