[Politics] Brexit

[Thunder Bolt]

I don't think this has been posted before but, even it has, it's worth a read. It's a speech given by Ivan Rogers, UK's former ambassador to the EU, the guy who knows more about the inner workings of Brussels than anybody in the country.

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13/full-

It's a brilliant speech, that lays into Remainers and Leavers, Tories and Labour alike. But most of all, it exposes as complete idiots all those people who are calling for 'no deal' thinking that it would be OK.

Interestingly, he also points out that the trade agreements to follow will be even more complicated.

Basically, he thinks we're totally screwed - not necessarily through Brexit itself, but through our complete lack of preparation and our unseemingly haste to rush through the negotiations

Yes, I'd seen that. All along I said that Theresa May had no need to invoke Article 50 straight away. Everyone would have excused her working out some sort of a plan leaving the two years after invokation to sort out the details.
Of course, there would have been grumbling but nothing like the deep divisions there are now.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

May's deal is pretty much like being in the single market. Regardless, May's deal is not like Canada's deal.

That's not correct.


May's deal does NOT deliver Frictionless Trade with the EU.


Now of course technically May's deal allows a pivot to Single Market membership to be agreed in the next phase. But she'll have to u-turn and drop her obsession with ending our right to Free Movement across the EU - which is less than likely.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1075045388774711298?s=19

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Brexit: Cabinet 'ramps up' no-deal planning

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46600850

But this time we really really mean it [emoji38]ol:

Surely with 100 days to go, and with the amount of information freely available, it can only be morons and WUM who still believe 'no deal' is a viable option ?

No. It is no ones fault if kremlin information attacks have messed with their minds.


Bots of course will be programmed to pile in with their support of *no deal* - distorting the perceived reality of MPs, ministers, and especially Theresa DisMay.

 

[carlzeiss]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/12/17/christmas-bonus-brussels-bureaucrats/

The European Union’s highest grade of civil servants will be paid more than €20,000 euros (£18,000) a month for the first time, after EU salaries and pensions were increased retroactively from July 1 this year.

The increase means that Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the European Commission and Donald Tusk, the president of the European Council, will earn about €32,700 euros a month, about €550 more than previously. The increase, meant to cover the cost of living, is equivalent to €6,600 a year.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Surely with 100 days to go, and with the amount of information freely available, it can only be morons and WUM who still believe 'no deal' is a viable option ?

There's a difference between a 'viable option' and a 'possible outcome'. You might scoff but the EU are spending millions on the 'possible outcome' and an EU spokesperson put the likelihood of a 'no deal' at 60% last week. I'm assuming you're claiming all those EU members and that spokesperson are "morons or WUMs" ?

 

[WATFORD zero]

There's a difference between a 'viable option' and a 'possible outcome'. You might scoff but the EU are spending millions on the 'possible outcome' and an EU spokesperson put the likelihood of a 'no deal' at 60% last week. I'm assuming you're claiming all those EU members and that spokesperson are "morons or WUMs" ?

I didn't think you trusted what EU politicians claimed ?

As Mystic Meg told you nearly 2 years ago, it isn't going to happen.

And we only have to wait 100 days at most to see who's right (and find out what leave voters voted for 2 and a half years ago)

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Brexit: Cabinet 'ramps up' no-deal planning

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46600850

But this time we really really mean it

Surely with 100 days to go, and with the amount of information freely available, it can only be morons and WUM who still believe 'no deal' is a viable option ?

3500 troops on the streets.

 

[Triggaaar]

I think the way the Treasury model was used was an example of the hopelessly poor and lazy Remain campaign as a whole, but it was ultimately based on a forecast (for 2030, I think?), the accuracy of which remains to be seen.

No, we don't need to wait to see the accuracy, they calculated the potential reduction in the potential growth of our GDP if we got a deal far worse than what we will get, divided that by the number of UK households and then represented that as if it was a cost to each household, which it simply is not. It's just bullshit.

Only if shoving a pillow up your jumper is pretty much like being pregnant.

Don't be silly.

That's not correct.

May's deal does NOT deliver Frictionless Trade with the EU.

Well we don't actually know yet, because she hasn't agreed the trading terms, only the backstop.

 

[nicko31]

Litigation? On what grounds?

Consequential losses from a no deal Brexit, especially those that have invested since Brexit on government assurances such as Nissan & Toyota.

 

[Triggaaar]

The language was carefully chosen. In that instance 'send'. The other slogan suggested 'the EU TAKES £m, let's give it to the NHS instead'

Indeed. If a Leave campaigner wanted to be argumentative about it they could say we do send a lot of money to the EU, and they can reference that money, despite the fact that yes the EU also sends some money our way too. Typical political BS, just like anyone defending the remain poster which said leaving would cost families £4,300. Jesus, grow up people.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I don’t know how any MP can say it’s responsible to prepare the forces to help in case of a no deal.

How is it responsible to get to that point.

 

[Gwylan]

Consequential losses from a no deal Brexit, especially those that have invested since Brexit on government assurances such as Nissan & Toyota.

What government assurances? The government has carried out the policy that it said it was going to carry out and has offered very little in the way of assurances. The only one I've seen is that agriculture would get the same level of subsidies as it got from the EU, until 2022 but nothing else.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I don’t know how any MP can say it’s responsible to prepare the forces to help in case of a no deal.

How is it responsible to get to that point.

3500 forces personnel to help in case of a no deal with police numbers 20000 less than 8 years ago in a country of 65 million, where people dial 999 because KFC is closed, to the issues of the Northern Irish border - a no deal will make the 2011 riots look the Teddy bears picnic.

It's not so much irresponsible, but utterly reprehensible.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

3500 troops on the streets.

It'll need more than 3,500 troops when the on-coming *no deal* storm hits us.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

It'll need more than 3,500 troops when the on-coming *no deal* storm hits us.

They will need that in Sunderland alone when Nissan pull out.

 

[Dave the OAP]

They will need that in Sunderland alone when Nissan pull out.

People of Sunderland voted to leave.

Bless them.

 

[Dave the OAP]

If it is a no deal, do all of our European players have to go home on the 28th march?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I’ve become the largest buyer of fridges in the world” Health Secretary [MENTION=6286]matt[/MENTION]Hancock tells [MENTION=12437]Mark[/MENTION]Urban01 on newsnight re plans to store six weeks of stockpiled medicines for NHS in event of No Deal Brexit.

 

[vegster]

I’ve become the largest buyer of fridges in the world” Health Secretary [MENTION=6286]matt[/MENTION]Hancock tells [MENTION=12437]Mark[/MENTION]Urban01 on newsnight re plans to store six weeks of stockpiled medicines for NHS in event of No Deal Brexit.

I was under the impression that there was " no magic money tree " for the NHS staff, how come there is for fridges that may not be needed and for medicines we can't afford ?