[Politics] Brexit

[GrizzlingGammon]

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The issue of the Irish border isn't about what currency is used. If it was that simple it would have been sorted long ago.

We could be waiting sometime for the EU to offer a better deal.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Ah, the bus.

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So many times leavers intelligence has been called in to question on the thread. But when I read that I read, We send the EU £350 million a week. Let's fund our NHS instead. Vote Leave.

Too me, and excuse me because according a few here I'm a bit thick, that says, we send the EU £350 million week. (I don't if that figure was 100% correct, I presume its close), lets fund our NHS instead. Now, I don't know if our NHS needs and extra £350 million a week. Some of the waste you see go on, suggests it may not, but that's another argument. But it says to me, lets fund our NHS out of the money, not give £350 million week to the NHS (which as I said, it may not need).

Now had the bus had printed on it, We send the EU £350 million a week, lets send the NHS £350 million instead, I could see your argument, but I think the whole bus issue has been twisted to serve Remain purposes.

The bus slogan was simple: Leave the EU and the NHS gets £350 million a week. A fantastic lie, aimed at the gullible, with devastating consequences.

 

[clapham_gull]

The message wasn't aimed at people that really understood it, it was aimed at a section of society that can vote but, quite frankly, don't know anything about the EU. Same in general elections when parties of both sides court the popular press. Not saying everyone that reads the Sun is stupid but enough to swing a vote! It's a case of the ends justify the means.

The irony is the hard brexiteer "establishment" also hate the NHS and would love to see it privatised. Hate the minimum wage, hate Health and Safety legislation, hate taxation and view food banks as "charming".

Somehow managed to hijack the problems with the EU as the cause and con a number of people. The only people being held back was them and after they have completed their plot, they will offer whatever crumbs are left at the table for everyone else. It's simply their attempt to return to the failed "trickle down" economics of the 80s.

Unfortunately the leader of the opposition hates the EU for different reasons and went hiding, believing that he can stand up to to toffs and nationalise everything with the EU out the way.

The politicians of the UK have managed to roll back the UK decades - it's frightening, on top of that Tony Blair steps in trying to convince us it was better in the 90s.

Parliament isn't fit for purpose. but there are enough sensible MPs in there to stop it happening.

I pray the two major parties effectively split and we end up with an alternative that in itself encourages the big two to sort themselves out.

 

[Triggaaar]

Some of the remainers continue to call those that disagree with them thick. When will they realise that this tactic really does them no good at all?

The message wasn't aimed at people that really understood it, it was aimed at a section of society that can vote but, quite frankly, don't know anything about the EU.

The bus slogan was simple: Leave the EU and the NHS gets £350 million a week. A fantastic lie, aimed at the gullible, with devastating consequences.

No time soon I guess.

 

[Baldseagull]

While I agree that there's no way of knowing what each leave voter wanted, and I can see an argument for a referendum with more detailed choices, it's disingenuous to pretend that voters believed what you've written.

So? People don't believe that, just as they didn't believe that leaving would mean WW3.

In any election where the result is close, you can claim that any one of the lies told by the winning side was responsible. Had remain won by a whisker, you could claim it was because they lied about the risk to our security.

On a point of pedantry, no remain politician claimed WW3 would break out. David Cameron said peace could be at risk, Boris Johnson and others strawmanned this to him saying WW3 would break out, so they could reject it as hyperbole.

 

[Triggaaar]

On a point of pedantry, no remain politician claimed WW3 would break out.

I was just paraphrasing / exaggerating. Peace isn't really at risk is it.

 

[Baldseagull]

Maybe, but what I am saying is, to me, that does no say give £350 million to the NHS each week, as is being claimed by Remain. To me it reads, we send a lot of money to the EU, lets spend it how we want to spend it on ourselves.

So you think if they had put "let's fund Trident instead" it would have been just as persuasive?

 

[Baldseagull]

I was just paraphrasing / exaggerating. Peace isn't really at risk is it.

May looked like she might headbutt Junker the other day.

I do not think it is immediately at risk, but it creates more opportunity for disagreement and argument with other nations, straight away.

 

[clapham_gull]

Now had the bus had printed on it, We send the EU £350 million a week, lets send the NHS £350 million instead, I could see your argument, but I think the whole bus issue has been twisted to serve Remain purposes.

This is what I don't understand about the whole leave argument, it was mainly driven by people who want a small state.

When did you ever hear someone from the "right wing" before Brexit say "we aren't spending enough on public services, let's leave the EU and we can".

Forget the NHS, it's simply a cynical lie. They see the EU as an extension of the state which they hate anyway.

There well well be more money to spend on the NHS or other public services but arguing over the figure or where it is spent is irrelevant,

If you honestly thought that the likes of Rees Mogg, Boris and Farage were going to pass that money over to you, you are in cloud cuckoo land.


They have an agenda which doesn't include you. If you can't find a job in their low tax, low regulation, small state utopia they will import someone who will.

I have bets on Michael Ashley being their first peerage to the House of Lords.

 

[W.C.]

Maybe, but what I am saying is, to me, that does no say give £350 million to the NHS each week, as is being claimed by Remain. To me it reads, we send a lot of money to the EU, lets spend it how we want to spend it on ourselves.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

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So out of the 52% only 100,000 want no deal?

guess that gets rid of that idea.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

So out of the 52% only 100,000 want no deal?

guess that gets rid of that idea.

Give it time Kinky that has been with a one-way media attack 'project fear'.

 

[Chicken Run]

Oh, I thought that leave campaign actually said the NHS would get 350 million pounds per week.

 

[Chicken Run]

If there is a people’s vote which I have to say seems possible now, Sky are suggesting the three options would be remain, leave with no deal or accept May’s deal what would happen if the no deal wins then?

The country would implode right?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I can't recall the exact figures, but the £350 million was grossly exaggerated according to the National Audit Office, if I remember rightly.

It was never true because rebates brought that total down considerably. It wasn't even sent and then claimed back.

Cornwall voted to leave in high numbers until they realised that the EU grants to deprived areas, included them. They demanded the government replaced their subsidies, to which, the government said no, lots of cut backs instead.
Guess what? Cornwall is now firmly Remain.

Theresa May is already hinting that she will cancel Brexit if more challenges come in. I suspect she will.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The bus slogan was simple: Leave the EU and the NHS gets £350 million a week. A fantastic lie, aimed at the gullible, with devastating consequences.

A recent poll shows two fifths of Leave voters still believe it.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A recent poll shows two fifths of Leave voters still believe it.

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/columnists/brexit-facts-perception-350-million/

 

[ManOfSussex]

The bus slogan was simple: Leave the EU and the NHS gets £350 million a week. A fantastic lie, aimed at the gullible, with devastating consequences.

70% of housing association/local authority housing tenants voted leave. Indeed, on the night of the vote Iain Duncan Smith observed that 'turnout in the council estates is very high' as the leave campaign had heavily targeted 'people from the council estates' as their votes were needed.

As he and Dominic Cummings et al knew, weaponizing the crown jewels of the welfare state by bringing the NHS into Brexit after 6 years of austerity was a key factor to those benefit claimants voting as they did.

 

[WATFORD zero]

If there is a people’s vote which I have to say seems possible now, Sky are suggesting the three options would be remain, leave with no deal or accept May’s deal what would happen if the no deal wins then?

The country would implode right?

Here's my reply to Tubby-McFat-Fuc when he asked the same question

All goods would start getting stockpiled at ports and airports as we would have no rules, tariffs or quotas on which to work and no method of charging, recording or collecting anything we did try to charge or any staff to administer it.

M25/M20 would grind to a halt.

Supermarkets would start running out within 3-4 days and there would be panic buying (most probably from the people who wanted 'no deal').

People would be laid off from work as the goods they would need won't be available.

We would crawl back and be accepted back into the EU within the week.

You keep on about facing up to the 'reality' of the situation, but have no answers for how any of it would work.

That is the 'reality' of the situation and is why it won't happen.


Out of interest, what do you think will happen ?

I think he is still working on his answer as to how no deal would work

 

[Chicken Run]

Here's my reply to Tubby-McFat-Fuc when he asked the same question



I think he is still working on his answer

A very interesting answer (genuinely).

Can I ask what your expertise and experience is to back this scenario up?