[Politics] Brexit

[ManOfSussex]

So she's off to The Hague first tomorrow then. Now if I was Prime Minister and I wanted to attempt to get reassurances and changes on the Northern Irish backstop, I wouldn't start from here. I'd be starting in Dublin.

 

[clapham_gull]

And there we have it.

The referendum was only cooked up in the first place to try to unite a Tory party that had been divided on Europe for decades. So, guess what? They’re still divided by Europe, and they always will be.

Any decent opposition would have made mincemeat of them by now but who do we have in charge? A Brexiteer in Remainers clothing. Old, smelly Remainers clothing.


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I voted Remain, but I don't really buy the argument that this was all about the Tories. I think we collectively forget how Eurosceptic the UK is. It went away a bit under Blair but you still had the Labour party arguing internally about the Euro.

My reaction to "this is all Cameron's fault" is that he put in the manifesto, the country voted for him (under out stupid electoral system) and further to that Parliament voted for the referendum to happen.

If Cameron had bottled it, I suspect another government would have done it anyway.

Personally where I believe May has f##### up, is pay to much attention to fears of immigration. By making that a "red line" she has had to make other concessions.

I don't think immigration is really a major concern of Rees Mogg and his merry band. They are just hell bent on turning the UK into a low regulation tax haven which ironically will completely depend on immigration for the lower paid jobs.

 

[beorhthelm]

Complete waste of time traipsing around Europe. Really start to wonder if she has any plan at all anymore. How long until 48 letters go in, more chaos, more uncertainty.

apparently they are way off the 48 letters, with many claims of MPs given the letters made up by journalists.

is it a waste of time? if we assume the reports of how the voting might go are accurate (Sunday learned opinion reckoned it was a loss ~20-30 no the huge defeat conjured today) having a chat with someone in Europe about the inside discussion might be helpful.

 

[Hugo Rune]

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Shame he didn’t take a swing at the opposition with it like that lunatic brawler Heseltine did!

Marked down to 6/10

 

[ManOfSussex]

Complete waste of time traipsing around Europe. Really start to wonder if she has any plan at all anymore. How long until 48 letters go in, more chaos, more uncertainty.

Only the people can decide on May's deal, we need some leadership fast

I saw Andrea Jenkyns on Sky News claiming more letters were put in today. Owen Paterson was on Sky News earlier too stating the ERG were all furious at their meeting at not having the opportunity to vote today.

It's an utter waste of time her going round Europe. If amendments to the backstop were agreed by The EU, Fine Gael's coalition Government in Dublin falls for example. It's a total non starter.

 

[nicko31]

apparently they are way off the 48 letters, with many claims of MPs given the letters made up by journalists.

is it a waste of time? if we assume the reports of how the voting might go are accurate (Sunday learned opinion reckoned it was a loss ~20-30 no the huge defeat conjured today) having a chat with someone in Europe about the inside discussion might be helpful.

You are living in some sort of parallel universe, are there Unicorns running around?

 

[nicko31]

I saw Andrea Jenkyns on Sky News claiming more letters were put in today. Owen Paterson was on Sky News earlier too stating the ERG were all furious at their meeting at not having the opportunity to vote today.

It's an utter waste of time her going round Europe. If amendments to the backstop were agreed by The EU, Fine Gael's coalition Government in Dublin falls for example. It's a total non starter.

All she can do it try and fudge the political declaration and hope some fall for it, personally I just can't see it...

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You will find that the reason why it's escalated into a shambles is because of remainers and remainer politicians feeding the EU with uncertainty over here.Now it we had proper leadership and direction and got on with the process far quicker things would have been a lot lot better.
The power hungry EU are nothing but bullies and control freaks who will do anything to stop countries leaving !!
You have leaders and followers and remainers are followers just like most of our weak politicians.

Absolute shit as usual from you.

May volunteered to knock a square peg into a round hole. She did her honest best and is continuing to do so.

Brexit won't happen because it cannot, any more than I can suck shit up my own ********.

But....carry on with your broflake conspiracy theory....

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

i do, prehaps needing more depth than usually given in PMQ. its a fair observation though that Mr Corbyn has been hiding on the issue of brexit for some time now.

With all due respect, Brexit has **** all to do with Corbyn.

I have a feeling that some people voted leave because they thought this meant 'we' could stop labour 'coming in'

 

[beorhthelm]

You are living in some sort of parallel universe, are there Unicorns running around?

which part is fanciful?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I saw Andrea Jenkyns on Sky News claiming more letters were put in today. Owen Paterson was on Sky News earlier too stating the ERG were all furious at their meeting at not having the opportunity to vote today.

It's an utter waste of time her going round Europe. If amendments to the backstop were agreed by The EU, Fine Gael's coalition Government in Dublin falls for example. It's a total non starter.

This.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You might want to go and check out the names leavers have been called on this thread by remainers. I'll help you by naming some of the guilty - Clamp, Plooks, Dave in Prague ( who has strangely changed his name ).

Strangely? Maybe he’s moved?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I voted Remain, but I don't really buy the argument that this was all about the Tories. I think we collectively forget how Eurosceptic the UK is. It went away a bit under Blair but you still had the Labour party arguing internally about the Euro.

My reaction to "this is all Cameron's fault" is that he put in the manifesto, the country voted for him (under out stupid electoral system) and further to that Parliament voted for the referendum to happen.

If Cameron had bottled it, I suspect another government would have done it anyway.

Personally where I believe May has f##### up, is pay to much attention to fears of immigration. By making that a "red line" she has had to make other concessions.

I don't think immigration is really a major concern of Rees Mogg and his merry band. They are just hell bent on turning the UK into a low regulation tax haven which ironically will completely depend on immigration for the lower paid jobs.

Nah. It was Cameron. Public school boys don't often make the best gamblers. Some of them make good chancers, though.

 

[beorhthelm]

With all due respect, Brexit has **** all to do with Corbyn.

actually it does, he's contributing to the lack of real leadership on the issue. Labour have taken an official policy that is at odds with its leadership with confusion and division. even if we have a GE we'd be in exactly the same position.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

actually it does, he's contributing to the lack of real leadership on the issue. Labour have taken an official policy that is at odds with its leadership with confusion and division. even if we have a GE we'd be in exactly the same position.

He's not PM. Brexit has **** all to do with him.

He's actually played a measured hand. As a remainer I would have liked him to have spoken for remain a bit more. But....wait! The UK voted leave so in what way would his paen for remain have had traction a year ago? Now that the the inevitable is slowly coalescing into reality, he can murmer that another vote may be best without sounding like a flat earther.

And I greatly dislike Corbyn, so don't suggest I'm a wee will momentumer.

Look, Brexit is ****ed. It was always ****ed. There is no point blaming Corbyn. That would be like blaming the Jocks for England not winning the last world cup.

 

[clapham_gull]

With all due respect, Brexit has **** all to do with Corbyn.

I have a feeling that some people voted leave because they thought this meant 'we' could stop labour 'coming in'

The aftermath has a lot to do with them. A complete fudge of a position they decided at their conference.

2/3 of Labour voters voted remain and I'd imagine the majority of their membership do to. Incredible in my mind that they don't just come out with a call for a 2nd referendum (*) tactically. It would blow the Conservative party in two.

However the current lot feel that getting out of Europe and re-nationalising everything is more important. Their MPs have obviously been briefed but I'm appalled how often they attempt to move the subject away from Brexit when interviewed.

( one has just done so as I type on Newsnight )

(*) Would be a nightmare.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The aftermath has a lot to do with them. 2/3 of Labour voters voted remain and I'd imagine the majority of their membership do to. Incredible in my mind that they don't just come out with a call for a 2nd referendum (*) tactically,

However the current lot feel that getting out of Europe and re-nationalising everything is more important.

(*) Would be a nightmare.

Whatabout if the liberals were in power?

Top whataboutery.

Meanwhile, Brexit was caused by the PM (Cameron) and driven into an inevitable brick wall by the PM (May). Neither of these are Corbyn.

The worry is we may end up with a Corbyn government.

But, like Brexit, that is not Corbyn's fault.

And, anymore whataboutery from people who don't seem to understand why we are where we are may drive me to vote for the silly bearded weasel. On the grounds that the rest of you appear to be stark raving bonkers.

 

[clapham_gull]

Whatabout if the liberals were in power?

Top whataboutery.

Meanwhile, Brexit was caused by the PM (Cameron) and driven into an inevitable brick wall by the PM (May). Neither of these are Corbyn.

The worry is we may end up with a Corbyn government.

But, like Brexit, that is not Corbyn's fault.

And, anymore whataboutery from people who don't seem to understand why we are where we are may drive me to vote for the silly bearded weasel. On the grounds that the rest of you appear to be stark raving bonkers.

Absolutely no idea what you are on about

Using the word whataboutary is basically the new whataboutary and if I hear "kicking a can down the road" again this week, I may throw a brick through the television.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Absolutely no idea what you are on about

Using the word whataboutary is basically the new whataboutary and if I hear "kicking a can down the road" again this week, I may throw a brick through the television.

No worres, mate. It's all bollocks at the end of the day.

 

[portlock seagull]

How depressing to be British tonight. What a mess. Anyone else hear Thornberry chirping like a righteous canary as Corbyn gave his speech. God I dislike her, even more than Abbott: as if Labour have anymore credibility during this whole sorry saga, of anything their weakness has compounded matters. Any half decent opposition would be in power now. Lets face it, we’ve been divided by Europe and thus conquered as the saying goes. Still, at least we’ve shown the democratic world how not to approach things - anyone fancy a spell as a dictatorship?!