[Politics] Brexit

[daveinplzen]

#everybodyelsesfault

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Daniel Hannan: "The premature triggering of Article 50 before she had a clear idea of what she wanted. "



also Daniel Hannan in 2017 "Article 50 sets in motion a legal process. Some commentators see this deadline as a disadvantage to Britain, but I’m blowed if I can understand why"

Blame blame blame

 

[Hampster Gull]

Stephen Barclay
Brexit Secretary
Brexit voter
“This deal delivers on what brexiteers like me campaigned for during the referendum, like skills based immigration, control of our fishing, control of our agriculture”

It’s a s**t deal that probably splits the country but it’s what brexiteers like him campaigned for

But [MENTION=12935]GT49er[/MENTION] keeps telling us there is only one Brexit view and one answer

 

[daveinplzen]

So, Brexiteers..you have been asked multiple times. What sort of leave do yo want? No deal? If so, explain how that works. T.Mays deal? If so, is that what you wanted? Norway type deal? Probably a lot of opposition from EFTA members, is that what you want?
You all seem to want different things, from this Yes/No referendum. What would actually satisfy you? Do you think you will be satisfied?

 

[ManOfSussex]

No. Not officially. It depends which Norwegian politician is expressing an opinion. Much like individual UK politicians don't all have the same view.

I reckon a deal could be done, no point in giving up on day 1.

I find it a little odd that based purely on one pro-EU Norwegian politician's broadcast and written interviews with C4 News and The Guardian last week, who was playing to the 'peoples vote' gallery anyway, that some people now think it's a total non-starter.

People forget that Cameron had Norwegians on the campaign back in 2016 telling everyone how awful their arrangement was with The EU and how we'd be better off remaining and not following suit for example.

As you say, it depends on who you listen to on it. The Foreign Minister of Iceland was on Newsnight last week and he said he thought it'd be okay, as did a former Swiss Ambassador I read in The Times a while back.

Frankly this Norwegian Heidi Nordby Lunde's opinion is about as valid as Morten Harket's out of a-ha.

 

[GT49er]

But [MENTION=12935]GT49er[/MENTION] keeps telling us there is only one Brexit view and one answer:

You don't 'alf talk some bollocks. People who voted 'leave' voted to leave the EU because they/we want to leave the EU. Just that. We don't want to be in the EU any more - no ifs, buts, no complicated agenda, it's just that simple. We joined the Common Market in the 70s; wish we hadn't - even those who voted to join the Common Market didn't vote to join the EU at any time; the politicians in the Westminster bubble didn't give us a vote. Until the referendum - which the pro-EU side lost.


Obviously far too difficult a concept for you to understand, with your rooted objection to leaving the EU clouding your every thought - and I guess it always will.

 

[daveinplzen]

You don't 'alf talk some bollocks. People who voted 'leave' voted to leave the EU because they/we want to leave the EU. Just that. We don't want to be in the EU any more - no ifs, buts, no complicated agenda, it's just that simple. We joined the Common Market in the 70s; wish we hadn't - even those who voted to join the Common Market didn't vote to join the EU at any time; the politicians in the Westminster bubble didn't give us a vote. Until the referendum - which the pro-EU side lost.


Obviously far too difficult a concept for you to understand, with your rooted objection to leaving the EU clouding your every thought - and I guess it always will.

So, you want a no deal? If thats the case, what benefits, and obviously, what would be the downsides of this?

 

[Hampster Gull]

You don't 'alf talk some bollocks. People who voted 'leave' voted to leave the EU because they/we want to leave the EU. Just that. We don't want to be in the EU any more - no ifs, buts, no complicated agenda, it's just that simple. We joined the Common Market in the 70s; wish we hadn't - even those who voted to join the Common Market didn't vote to join the EU at any time; the politicians in the Westminster bubble didn't give us a vote. Until the referendum - which the pro-EU side lost.


Obviously far too difficult a concept for you to understand, with your rooted objection to leaving the EU clouding your every thought - and I guess it always will.

Hi GT. no bollocks, just facts. I think you will find Norway isn’t in the EU. Switzerland isn’t In the EU. Canada isn’t in the EU. The USA isn’t in the EU. Mays deal isn’t in the EU. All have different relationship with the EU, with different benefits and costs, but all are not in the EU. What flavour of ice cream, I mean what version of Brexit do you want? Your Brexit government want Mays deal, others want the other versions.

 

[daveinplzen]

Brexit voters seem keen to blame everybody else for this cluster****, yet, almost to a man, they all want different versions of Brexit. Its Brexiteers who have screwed this up, nobody else.

 

[WATFORD zero]

You don't 'alf talk some bollocks. People who voted 'leave' voted to leave the EU because they/we want to leave the EU. Just that. We don't want to be in the EU any more - no ifs, buts, no complicated agenda, it's just that simple. We joined the Common Market in the 70s; wish we hadn't - even those who voted to join the Common Market didn't vote to join the EU at any time; the politicians in the Westminster bubble didn't give us a vote. Until the referendum - which the pro-EU side lost.


Obviously far too difficult a concept for you to understand, with your rooted objection to leaving the EU clouding your every thought - and I guess it always will.

If it's that simple, it should be simple for you to tell us which version of Brexit you want ?

 

[daveinplzen]

Brexiteers main issues seems to be... we can do trade deals with who we want. Im struggling to think of somewhere that we dont have a trade deal with on good terms as a member of the EU already

Control of our borders. The mechanisms for controlling our borders are there, we just didnt implement them. Theres also a thing called the English Channel, that some refugees are risking their and families lives trying to cross, despite being able to 'just walk in'

Making or own laws. If we are not making our own laws, whats the point of that big building by the Thames with the tower and famous bell?

Pounds dropping incidentally

 

[portlock seagull]

I thought the plan was to negotiate a good deal with the EU, whilst threatening 'no deal', and can't see what alternative plan there could be ?

The odds were stacked against leave, but not because it has been opposed, because of simple logic.

The problem was that the EU had already said they wouldn't renege on their principles and let us cherry pick, whilst a little research would have shown that our alternative of 'no deal' was a non-starter. Something that both the British Government and the EU knew from the very beginning

It’s not a negotiation if everyone involved doesn’t want to do / budge an inch. It’s was always a hard exit or nothing in my mind and we should have had plans to this effect prior to the vote. But as I said, it wasn’t supposed to happen so nobody did. And throughout the process the EU, who’ve got off very lightly for their role in this mess, just said no, no and no again to anything remotely in our interests. This of course they must do, it’s a fight to the death after all. We would have been far better off saying we’re going to WTO terms, now let’s see what you’ll give us EU putting the emphasis on them to provide a deal. Rather than us just being repeatedly blocked on everything.

 

[WATFORD zero]

It’s not a negotiation if everyone involved doesn’t want to do / budge an inch. It’s was always a hard exit or nothing in my mind and we should have had plans to this effect prior to the vote. But as I said, it wasn’t supposed to happen so nobody did. And throughout the process the EU, who’ve got off very lightly for their role in this mess, just said no, no and no again to anything remotely in our interests. This of course they must do, it’s a fight to the death after all. We would have been far better off saying we’re going to WTO terms, now let’s see what you’ll give us EU putting the emphasis on them to provide a deal. Rather than us just being repeatedly blocked on everything.

It's hardly a fight to the death. Basically the EU have said that if you don't want to be members you can't have the benefits, that's all.

You do know that we have already submitted our requested schedules and quotas to the WTO well over 3 months ago and what the outcome has been ?

(And that you are also asking for a hard border in NI/Ireland ?)

 

[Two Professors]

Excellent news.Boris has had his hair cut, now ready to look like our leader.Time for May to pack it in and hand over the reins to somebody with a backbone.On our way to a 'No Deal Brexit'.Rule Britannia,time to start signing trade deals on our own terms,not some Brussels sprouts.

 

[portlock seagull]

There will be no reversal of the direction of travel without another referendum, if another referendum changes our course, it would not be our Political masters ignoring the people, they would be listening to the people.
I do accept that there would be suspicion from some about the option of leaving, as it stands, as being deliberately shite so as to make remaining more appealing by comparison, but there is a lot of suspicion about the funding source of the Leave campaign, but no riots yet.

Yes, that’s the problem though as you rightly say. Purposely making something shite from the beginning is at the heart of this mess. Then there’s a 2nd vote and I won’t vote for that, the Remainers crowing everyone’s finally come to their senses. Put it will be a loaded election, an unfair contest whatever the words or term is.

 

[Ernest]

Brexit voters seem keen to blame everybody else for this cluster****, yet, almost to a man, they all want different versions of Brexit. Its Brexiteers who have screwed this up, nobody else.

The only person to blame is Cameron for starting it all, the sooner he has his collar felt the better

 

[daveinplzen]

Excellent news.Boris has had his hair cut, now ready to look like our leader.Time for May to pack it in and hand over the reins to somebody with a backbone.On our way to a 'No Deal Brexit'.Rule Britannia,time to start signing trade deals on our own terms,not some Brussels sprouts.

Sign trade deals? Who with?
btw there is something called 'negotiations' before any trade deals are signed. Thats not done in a couple of days. Who do you want to trade with incidentally. Im assuming you believe that the UK will get much better deals to make up for this cluster****.
Im not expecting a sensible answer, so dont put too much effort into it..

 

[WATFORD zero]

Yes, that’s the problem though as you rightly say. Purposely making something shite from the beginning is at the heart of this mess. Then there’s a 2nd vote and I won’t vote for that, the Remainers crowing everyone’s finally come to their senses. Put it will be a loaded election, an unfair contest whatever the words or term is.

Nobody purposely made it shite. The options were simply shite from the beginning. As you have rightly pointed out, the EU weren't going to let us have membership benefits, if we didn't want to be members, so TM's deal (or similar) was all we were ever going to get.

The infrastructure investment for 'no deal' alone would be in the 10s of billions and take years, and our first attempt at negotiating with the big wide world has gone well in the WTO (what I alluded to above), with Russia currently stopping all our further negotiations. A proper 'no deal' couldn't be done in under 10 years and a little research prior to the vote would have told you this.

That is why the total thing is shite, nobody had to work to make it shite

 

[Dave the OAP]

You don't 'alf talk some bollocks. People who voted 'leave' voted to leave the EU because they/we want to leave the EU. Just that. We don't want to be in the EU any more - no ifs, buts, no complicated agenda, it's just that simple. We joined the Common Market in the 70s; wish we hadn't - even those who voted to join the Common Market didn't vote to join the EU at any time; the politicians in the Westminster bubble didn't give us a vote. Until the referendum - which the pro-EU side lost.


Obviously far too difficult a concept for you to understand, with your rooted objection to leaving the EU clouding your every thought - and I guess it always will.

Ok, so we come out with no deal like you want.

Can you answer then, what happens with flights to Europe from then27th...what happens with the suppliers of U.K. Businesses coming through our ports...what happens with Europe citizens living in the uk...what happens to uk citizens in the eu and their Healthcare? What happens with contracts my company has with our European suppliers? What happens with companies like Nissan and Land Rover who rely on Europe suppliers?

Thanks in anticipation of your answers.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1071759560120123393?s=19