[Politics] Brexit

[pb21]

Democratic results are enacted in this country (for very good reasons) ... only a very special type of precious would argue this long standing UK tradition should suddenly stop because they didn't get their way.

Brexit is being enacted and no one is arguing that this should be suddenly stopped because they didn't get their way. Are you genuinely struggling with this or being deliberately facetious? I think others have labelled you as just a WUM and I would tend to agree.

 

[golddene]

"Is it more democratic to rely on a three year old vote based on what an idealised Brexit might offer, or to have a vote based on what we know it does actually entail?"

Not my words footy genius, but Jo Johnson - https://medium.com/@JoJohnsonUK/why...governments-proposed-brexit-deal-3d289f95f2bc

'To present the nation with a choice between two deeply unattractive outcomes, vassalage and chaos, is a failure of British statecraft on a scale unseen since the Suez crisis.'

'Certainly, I know from my own work at the Department of Transport the potential chaos that will follow a “no deal” Brexit. It will cause disruption, delay and deep damage to our economy. There are real questions about how we will be able to guarantee access to fresh food and medicine if the crucial Dover-Calais trade route is clogged up. The government may have to take control of prioritising which lorries and which goods are allowed in and out of the country, an extraordinary and surely unworkable intervention for a government in an advanced capitalist economy. The prospect of Kent becoming the Lorry Park of England is very real in a no deal scenario.'

"Britain stands on the brink of the greatest crisis since the Second World War. My loyalty to my party is undimmed. I have never rebelled on any issue before now. But my duty to my constituents and our great nation has forced me to act."

brilliant response and not once dipping to @jcfootie genius level of refinement

 

[astralavi]

Jo Johnson for PM

 

[Sorrel]

I think the tipping point has been reached and now Brexit will not take place - the other thing that could (potentially, depending on the judgement from the ECJ on the 27/11) force it to continue is the refusal of some EU members to allow the UK to rescind or extend article 50.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

How many cases have there been where the time between the vote and the actual implementation have been so great? How many instances where what was voted for and what will happen are so different? How many cases where most probably the population would vote the opposite given a new vote based on both the political and demographic changes?

What tradition deals with that?

If you want to try that line of argument what about the numerous democratic votes including a General election that have happened since 2016 (how many more votes will it take)?

The remoaner argument used to be leavers didn't know what we voted for so a 'hard' Brexit is unacceptable, a softer Brexit will do ... now the argument goes a 'soft' Brexit is so far removed from what leavers voted for we need another vote .... brilliant!

Probably or probably not we will never find out

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Jo Johnson for PM

That would really piss Boris off.

So the idea is not without merit.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

"Is it more democratic to rely on a three year old vote based on what an idealised Brexit might offer, or to have a vote based on what we know it does actually entail?"

Not my words footy genius, but Jo Johnson - https://medium.com/@JoJohnsonUK/why...governments-proposed-brexit-deal-3d289f95f2bc

'To present the nation with a choice between two deeply unattractive outcomes, vassalage and chaos, is a failure of British statecraft on a scale unseen since the Suez crisis.'

'Certainly, I know from my own work at the Department of Transport the potential chaos that will follow a “no deal” Brexit. It will cause disruption, delay and deep damage to our economy. There are real questions about how we will be able to guarantee access to fresh food and medicine if the crucial Dover-Calais trade route is clogged up. The government may have to take control of prioritising which lorries and which goods are allowed in and out of the country, an extraordinary and surely unworkable intervention for a government in an advanced capitalist economy. The prospect of Kent becoming the Lorry Park of England is very real in a no deal scenario.'

"Britain stands on the brink of the greatest crisis since the Second World War. My loyalty to my party is undimmed. I have never rebelled on any issue before now. But my duty to my constituents and our great nation has forced me to act."

Heart-warming to see a politician actually acting with a conscience, ahead of self-interest or blind party loyalty.

And incredible that the author of the quote shares genes with the least principled politician of our generation.

 

[vegster]

Heart-warming to see a politician actually acting with a conscience, ahead of self-interest or blind party loyalty.

And incredible that the author of the quote shares genes with the least principled politician of our generation.

Looks like Jo got all the decent genes in the family.

 

[BrickTamland]

If you want to try that line of argument what about the numerous democratic votes including a General election that have happened since 2016 (how many more votes will it take)?

The remoaner argument used to be leavers didn't know what we voted for so a 'hard' Brexit is unacceptable, a softer Brexit will do ... now the argument goes a 'soft' Brexit is so far removed from what leavers voted for we need another vote .... brilliant!

Probably or probably not we will never find out

But you didn’t follow the line of argument at all? Strange reply

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Brexit is being enacted and no one is arguing that this should be suddenly stopped because they didn't get their way. Are you genuinely struggling with this or being deliberately facetious? I think others have labelled you as just a WUM and I would tend to agree.

The whole campaign behind a second referendum is being run by people who never accepted the initial result, therefore, they are seeking to reverse a result before it can be enacted after numerous democratic votes (ending a longstanding UK democratic tradition) ... have any of the apologists for this undemocratic lunacy given any thought to the possible consequences if they are successful I wonder ...

 

[WATFORD zero]

So the total Brexit case has now come down to

'We voted for it by a slim majority 2.5 years ago and although 2.5 years on nobody still knows what it is, it has to be done. People changing their minds is not allowed or democratic'

Compelling

 

[JC Footy Genius]

"Is it more democratic to rely on a three year old vote based on what an idealised Brexit might offer, or to have a vote based on what we know it does actually entail?"

Not my words footy genius, but Jo Johnson - https://medium.com/@JoJohnsonUK/why...governments-proposed-brexit-deal-3d289f95f2bc

'To present the nation with a choice between two deeply unattractive outcomes, vassalage and chaos, is a failure of British statecraft on a scale unseen since the Suez crisis.'

'Certainly, I know from my own work at the Department of Transport the potential chaos that will follow a “no deal” Brexit. It will cause disruption, delay and deep damage to our economy. There are real questions about how we will be able to guarantee access to fresh food and medicine if the crucial Dover-Calais trade route is clogged up. The government may have to take control of prioritising which lorries and which goods are allowed in and out of the country, an extraordinary and surely unworkable intervention for a government in an advanced capitalist economy. The prospect of Kent becoming the Lorry Park of England is very real in a no deal scenario.'

"Britain stands on the brink of the greatest crisis since the Second World War. My loyalty to my party is undimmed. I have never rebelled on any issue before now. But my duty to my constituents and our great nation has forced me to act."

Always good to see a true class warrior using a privileged, Tory, private school toff etc etc argument

 

[Ernest]

Can't disagree with anything JJ has said, both so called deals on offer, Chequers or No Deal are a load of crap and a lot worse than where we were before June 16.

 

[Albumen]

The whole campaign behind a second referendum is being run by people who never accepted the initial result, therefore, they are seeking to reverse a result before it can be enacted after numerous democratic votes (ending a longstanding UK democratic tradition) ... have any of the apologists for this undemocratic lunacy given any thought to the possible consequences if they are successful I wonder ...

It was never binding, hence not undemocratic. It's just taken this long for even the most stubborn brexiters to think it's probably not a good idea afterall.
A bit of a waste of time really.
Still, it's kept May in position.

 

[Hampster Gull]

The beauty of democracy is people can kick out the lastest bad decision.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

So the total Brexit case has now come down to

'We voted for it by a slim majority 2.5 years ago and although 2.5 years on nobody still knows what it is, it has to be done. People changing their minds is not allowed or democratic'

Compelling

Fortunately, you have predicted it won't happen so nothing to worry about

 

[Stat Brother]

[tweet]1060930401236066305[/tweet]

 

[WATFORD zero]

Fortunately, you have predicted it won't happen so nothing to worry about

Not quite, but we both agreed that 'no deal' won't happen

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Not quite, but we both agreed that 'no deal' won't happen

That's your position .. good luck finding one quote where I said no deal 'wouldn't happen'

 

[JC Footy Genius]

It was never binding, hence not undemocratic. It's just taken this long for even the most stubborn brexiters to think it's probably not a good idea afterall.
A bit of a waste of time really.
Still, it's kept May in position.

*Sigh* see post #63359