[Politics] Brexit

[BrickTamland]

A dead person's vote is more important than the say of an 18 or 19 year old who couldn't vote.

Good one!

 

[beorhthelm]

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46122255

“Toshiba's UK withdrawal puts Cumbria nuclear plant in doubt”

Yet more problems for May to deal with; shame the U.K. has paid scant attention and **** all investment to renewal energy. I was going to say, will the last person to leave the U.K. switch the lights off....but I guess they will already be off by then.

I’ve got an extension lead if anyone needs it, might be long enough to reach you guys.

shirely the problem is too much investment is going into renewable energy? 28% of generated power and rising.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Be interested to know in the two years since the ref how many leave voters have passed away from old age - I personally know of 3.

I did see a report that by the end of January 2019 natural mortality rates will have removed the 2016 leave majority.

So in other words, if an exact repeat of the 2016 referendum was held with two simple rules - (1) Only people who voted in 2016 could vote this time and (2) They had to vote the same way as before - then there would be a majority for remain.

It's a sobering thought - the remit for Brexit would have disappeared before it even happened.

In itself, this is not a case for simply not leaving. It does however strengthen the case for another referendum.

 

[Gwylan]

I did see a report that by the end of January 2019 natural mortality rates will have removed the 2016 leave majority.

So in other words, if an exact repeat of the 2016 referendum was held with two simple rules - (1) Only people who voted in 2016 could vote this time and (2) They had to vote the same way as before - then there would be a majority for remain.

It's a sobering thought - the remit for Brexit would have disappeared before it even happened.

In itself, this is not a case for simply not leaving. It does however strengthen the case for another referendum.

Not really. Unless you're suggesting that, in three years time, there'll be another referendum ... and another, three years after that, ad infinitum

 

[Westdene Seagull]

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46122255

“Toshiba's UK withdrawal puts Cumbria nuclear plant in doubt”

Yet more problems for May to deal with; shame the U.K. has paid scant attention and **** all investment to renewal energy. I was going to say, will the last person to leave the U.K. switch the lights off....but I guess they will already be off by then.

I’ve got an extension lead if anyone needs it, might be long enough to reach you guys.

A worrying issue agreed but nothing to do with Brexit at all. Yet more whataboutary from you.

 

[Baldseagull]

And yet you still cant explain how we can as EU members implement quotas and visa permits to enter onto EU citizens and make them subject to the same rules as non EU citizens, which is a bit odd considering you keep saying we have controls to do this whilst being members and everyone therefore apart from you must be wrong. Have you noticed not one remainer has ever backed your view we dont need to leave to make EU and non EU citizens abide by the same border controls for entry........i wonder why.
Do christians go to heaven even if they are persistent liars?

There are various immigration policies applied for people from different places, not everyone needs a visa, not everyone needs a work permit, general EU citizens rights are not as open as those that apply to Irish citizens for example. We have the right to restrict general EU immigration under a number of different grounds, but not so for Irish Citizens. Many other countries citizens enjoy visa free travel to the UK also. No EU citizen has the right to remain longer than any other foreign visitor without registering in Spain and elsewhere in Europe, we could do that too if we really wanted, but the cost benefit is believed to be not worth the effort. If it were true that the strain on UK services was unmanagble, we would absolutely have the right to restrict EU immigration, what we can't do is say we are restricting EU immigration because the Gammons don't like it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

A worrying issue agreed but nothing to do with Brexit at all. Yet more whataboutary from you.

I didn’t state it was directly related to Brexit. In fact, I explicitly added a caveat to state it’s yet another thing on her plate.

 

[CHAPPERS]

So Dominic Raab only now understands how important frictionless trade at Dover/Calais is. ****ing hell.

 

[pastafarian]

There are various immigration policies applied for people from different places, not everyone needs a visa, not everyone needs a work permit, general EU citizens rights are not as open as those that apply to Irish citizens for example. We have the right to restrict general EU immigration under a number of different grounds, but not so for Irish Citizens. Many other countries citizens enjoy visa free travel to the UK also. No EU citizen has the right to remain longer than any other foreign visitor without registering in Spain and elsewhere in Europe, we could do that too if we really wanted, but the cost benefit is believed to be not worth the effort. If it were true that the strain on UK services was unmanagble, we would absolutely have the right to restrict EU immigration, what we can't do is say we are restricting EU immigration because the Gammons don't like it.

Deflecting.
If we have the ability to take back permanent control of our EU borders, place EU countries and citizens in the same gene pool as non EU citizens and decide ourselves what rules and regulations can be applicable, with if we choose, visas for entry or quotas on certain tier groups (as we currently do now on our non eu policies) then what is the mechanism, (that must obviously be clearly defined in the treaties) that would permit us as members to effectively end free movement next week if we chose to and still remain members of the EU.
When think tanks, politicians, lawyers and a whole raft of other people say ....yes,to control borders in this way equally across the board for both EU and non EU citizens, you would have to leave the EU and no longer be subject to free movement directives and and regulations........then they are not making it up like you think they are.
But prove your case.......what is the mechanism that would allow us to permanently end free movement next week whilst still members.

 

[Baldseagull]

I did see a report that by the end of January 2019 natural mortality rates will have removed the 2016 leave majority.

So in other words, if an exact repeat of the 2016 referendum was held with two simple rules - (1) Only people who voted in 2016 could vote this time and (2) They had to vote the same way as before - then there would be a majority for remain.

It's a sobering thought - the remit for Brexit would have disappeared before it even happened.

In itself, this is not a case for simply not leaving. It does however strengthen the case for another referendum.

If you think that the 2016 referendum was the only one to have on the matter, and the will of the people is what must be followed, logically, it absolutely is a reason for not doing it, but when has logic taken a front seat in Brexit?

I am sure JCFG will see it differently, perhaps "will of the dead" will be the new mantra.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

So Dominic Raab only now understands how important frictionless trade at Dover/Calais is. ****ing hell.

It's unbelievable, isn't it? Hello, we're an island and there's this little stretch of water, 23 miles wide which is how close we are to France.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There are 3 million Europeans living in this country who will not have any rights after March of next year. I personally know of two who are married to British men.

Here's an example of another two of them.

[tweet]1060456525121142784[/tweet]

 

[CHAPPERS]

[tweet]1060480347555725312[/tweet]

Is he taking the piss do you think?

 

[ManOfSussex]

So Dominic Raab only now understands how important frictionless trade at Dover/Calais is. ****ing hell.

It's unbelievable, isn't it? Hello, we're an island and there's this little stretch of water, 23 miles wide which is how close we are to France.

It was only 2 weeks ago as well that Chris Grayling actually made his first ever visit to The Port of Dover as Transport Secretary- https://www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/...ty-to-discuss-brexit-traffic-concerns-192266/

 

[Baldseagull]

Deflecting.
If we have the ability to take back permanent control of our EU borders, place EU countries and citizens in the same gene pool as non EU citizens and decide ourselves what rules and regulations can be applicable, with if we choose, visas for entry or quotas on certain tier groups (as we currently do now on our non eu policies) then what is the mechanism, (that must obviously be clearly defined in the treaties) that would permit us as members to effectively end free movement next week if we chose to and still remain members of the EU.
When think tanks, politicians, lawyers and a whole raft of other people say ....yes,to control borders in this way equally across the board for both EU and non EU citizens, you would have to leave the EU and no longer be subject to free movement directives and and regulations........then they are not making it up like you think they are.
But prove your case.......what is the mechanism that would allow us to permanently end free movement next week whilst still members.

We cannot permanently end free movement of people whilst retaining free movement of goods and services, we could break the rules, but there would be a reaction from the EU preventing us from enjoying some of the other benefits of membership. So if you are looking for a method of doing it without leaving, we can just do it and suffer the consequences, but we are British and we like to play by the rules, even if we we try to make the rules favour us unfairly, I hope that answers your question.
We can, if there is a demonstrable problem that can't be resolved in a better way, restrict it to resolve the problem, without sanction, so why is it you want to halt it, even if the only problem is that some people don't like it, and mostly misunderstand it?

How about we keep the benefits of the single market, and educate people that asylum seekers, refugees, illegal immigrants etc. will all be treated just the same as they are now after leaving, that Turkey is not likely to become a member of the EU in the next 50 years, and that if it ever gains that status, it will be because they have resolved differences with Greece and Cyprus and become a country that would be welcomed in, that Spanish nurses and Portuguese doctors will still be sought by the NHS, but will now cost a couple of grand more to employ, as the NHS will be paying for their work permits and visas, and possibly have to not renew their contracts after a few years and get new recruits, so that they do not gain residency rights.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[tweet]1060480347555725312[/tweet]

Is he taking the piss do you think?

I wish he was.

We also have a NI Secretary who admitted she knew nothing about NI.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...its-not-understanding-northern-irish-politics

 

[Baldseagull]

[tweet]1060480347555725312[/tweet]

Is he taking the piss do you think?

Unfortunately, no, the good news is that he found out and now realises, whereas David Davis who had far longer in the job is most likely blissfully unaware still.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

[tweet]1060480347555725312[/tweet]

Is he taking the piss do you think?

He's a zealot who is gagging for *No deal*

 

[Westdene Seagull]

There are 3 million Europeans living in this country who will not have any rights after March of next year. I personally know of two who are married to British men.

Here's an example of another two of them.

[tweet]1060456525121142784[/tweet]

And yet even in the EUs own words - both the examples you've mentioned will allow them to stay post withdrawl - https://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/services/your-rights/Brexit_en - likewise for your friends.

I'd suggest the first is just a payment issue - I've had perfectly usable cards rejected on occassions. I'd be interested in an update if that person contacted the Home Office and arranged an alternative method of payment. Maybe the second person should appeal or go for Settled Status rather than PR.

There's always going to be examples of things going wrong - it doesn't mean the rights to stay aren't actually there.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

And yet even in the EUs own words - both the examples you've mentioned will allow them to stay post withdrawl - https://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/services/your-rights/Brexit_en - likewise for your friends.

I'd suggest the first is just a payment issue - I've had perfectly usable cards rejected on occassions. I'd be interested in an update if that person contacted the Home Office and arranged an alternative method of payment. Maybe the second person should appeal or go for Settled Status rather than PR.

There's always going to be examples of things going wrong - it doesn't mean the rights to stay aren't actually there.

There's a lot more going wrong at the Home Office, than going right.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-44227122