[Politics] Brexit

[golddene]

I suspect that the nuances of EU funding probably wouldn't be enough to sway this specimen but I do agree with your broader point. The campaign (both sides) could have been held from a much more fact based approach, allowing people to make a more educated opinion.

Agree.
Had "call me Dave" taken up the EU's offer of help in getting the truth to the electorate, i.e. the pro's of remaining weighed against the "leave" reality, then maybe this shitfest could have been avoided! Of course Dave didn't need their "help" he was convinced he could carry the day himself!! haha. Did he resign out of frustration at the result or....... his job was done here?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Quite. That pig ****er Cameron couldn’t conceive the British public would be thick enough to vote us out of the Union so didn’t even bother trying to explain such matters. Course he underestimated how moronic 52% of those that voted could be. Now he’s over in France with his trotters up and we are left to the mercy of the idiots here.

Funny thing I've read this morning. Did Cameron appoint him personally or was it someone else?
It's been said many times, Remain fought a very weak campaign.

[tweet]1054431727148523521[/tweet]

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Can the Nasty party really get any nastier? Stewart Jackson ex MP, chief of staff to David Davis mocking a child in Great Ormond Street hospital, because he wanted to go on the People's march.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-backing-tory-faces-fury-13463157

 

[larus]

I agree with this and after Brexit has been decided one way or the other I think the issue has damaged British politics for years to come. If we don't Brexit then half the country will feel betrayed. If we do Brexit and the shitstorm inevitably ensues then 75% of the country will feel betrayed.

Looks like typical remainer mathematics. I can only assume you work in government producing stats on the economic impact of Brexit with figures like that.

The sh1tstorm (if we get it), will have been caused by the incompetence of reaminers (TM, Hammond and Robbins) not preparing for a No Deal scenario. We needed to be ready for No Deal, so that means preparing - if your fall-back position is No Deal, you MUST Be ready for this. May is so far out of her depth it’s embarrassing. However, I’m not saying I don’t think we should have tried for a deal - it’s just that too many have tried to thwart a proper Brexit by working with that EU.

 

[larus]

Analysis piece here in The Times today on the various factions within The Government:

Sceptical cabinet waverers
A powerful group including the home secretary Sajid Javid, the foreign secretary Jeremy Hunt and attorney general Geoffrey Cox. In a divided cabinet the prime minister cannot pursue any strategy or make any trade-off without their backing. In the past few days they have been instrumental in shaping the internal debate over Brexit and pushing the prime minister to take a harder stance on Northern Ireland.
Power rating: 5/5

Brexiteer cabinet resignation watch
In its inner circle this group probably contains just two Brexit supporting members — the work and pensions secretary Esther McVey and the international development secretary Penny Mordaunt. Politically, the prime minister could probably survive their departure — but if other key Brexiteers such as Michael Gove or Liam Fox were to walk, her position would probably become untenable.
Power rating: 4/5

Remain cabinet resignation watch
Much less talked about is the, albeit small, potential for key cabinet ministers who support a soft Brexit to resign should Mrs May change her stance under pressure from Brexiteers. In this the chancellor Philip Hammond and the business secretary Greg Clark are key. Both have staked their reputations on a deal that will protect business from disruption and were instrumental in crafting and backing what became the Chequers plan. Should that be rejected then they might consider their positions.
Power rating: 3/5

The let’s have a new idea brigade
Led by the former minister Nick Boles this group is pushing for a completely new negotiating strategy. They are calling for the government to scrap transition and negotiate a new withdrawal agreement under which the UK would remain linked to single market and customs union for an unspecified period of time until a looser Canada-style free trade agreement could be negotiated.This would be very similar in the short term to the relationship which Norway has with the EU with a customs union. The idea is gaining traction in Westminster among Tories looking for a way out of Chequers — but it could not be negotiated by March and it is hard to see how the EU would be prepared to accept it, because in the long term it doesn’t deal with the Irish border question.
Power rating: 3/5

Brexit Delivery Group
This group represents a broad church of dissatisfied MPs who used to be May loyalists. It might be prepared to accept a Chequers-style compromise or a new strategy as outlined above. They have only limited loyalty to the prime minister now but the central tenet of their belief is that a Brexit agreement has to be reached that avoids the consequences of no deal at all.
Power rating: 2/5

Hard Brexit European Research Group
Mobilised and disciplined Brexiteers who are firmly on manoeuvres behind Jacob Rees-Mogg, chairman of the European Research Group, and the former Brexit minister Steve Baker. They are determined to kill off the kind of compromise deal on the Irish border that Mrs May is negotiating. So far they have insisted that want to change Brexit policy and not prime minister. But if Mrs May refuses to move then they may try and change both.
Power rating: 4/5

Paramilitary Brexiteers
This much smaller group, that includes Andrew Bridgen and Andrea Jenkins, have already taken a public stance against the prime minister and want to see her gone. Some in this category whisper that securing Brexit is more important than continuing with a Conservative government.
Power rating: 1/5

Soft Brexiteers/May loyalists
Pro-business, remain-minded Tory MPs including the former transport minister Stephen Hammond. They want a customs union and membership of the European Free Trade Association, which includes Norway and Switzerland. This group broadly supports Chequers and balks at ERG pressure for Mrs May to change course. However, support for this position is shrinking fast given no real tangible results have come from the Chequers proposals so far. Frustration and concern with the way the prime minister has handled the process is now also a factor and loyalty to Mrs May has always been skin deep. Should a leadership election be triggered by 49 Brexiteers moving against her the bulk of the parliamentary party can no longer be guaranteed to support the prime minister to see it off. The only thing that is keeping her in place is the lack of a credible alternative.
Power rating: 4/5

Second referendum supporters
This has traditionally been a small group of pro-European Tories — led by Anna Soubry — but it is gaining traction as the political deal lock continues. Some Tories now believe up to 50 of their colleagues could ultimately back a second poll — if that was an alternative to leaving without a deal. If a second referendum got Labour frontbench backing this would potentially be enough to get it through the House of Commons.
Power rating: 2/5

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-party-factions-who-could-bring-may-down-over-brexit-fw9vcr3r2

So, some hack for The Times creates some random categories and then decides to randomly pick MPs/Ministers and assign to each Category which he has created (but I would bet a huge amount of money he hasn’t asked them what they think), and suddenly this is important.

You couldn’t make it up.

 

[The Clamp]

Looks like typical remainer mathematics. I can only assume you work in government producing stats on the economic impact of Brexit with figures like that.

The sh1tstorm (if we get it), will have been caused by the incompetence of reaminers (TM, Hammond and Robbins) not preparing for a No Deal scenario. We needed to be ready for No Deal, so that means preparing - if your fall-back position is No Deal, you MUST Be ready for this. May is so far out of her depth it’s embarrassing. However, I’m not saying I don’t think we should have tried for a deal - it’s just that too many have tried to thwart a proper Brexit by working with that EU.

Everyone's fault except those who actually voted Leave and created all this nonsense. It's one thing to vote leave in the first place, quite another entirely to try and shift the blame onto others. I suppose it does demonstrate you at least have a sense of shame about your vote. Just not very gallant.

 

[The Clamp]

Can the Nasty party really get any nastier? Stewart Jackson ex MP, chief of staff to David Davis mocking a child in Great Ormond Street hospital, because he wanted to go on the People's march.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-backing-tory-faces-fury-13463157

Disgusting.

 

[ManOfSussex]

So, some hack for The Times creates some random categories and then decides to randomly pick MPs/Ministers and assign to each Category which he has created (but I would bet a huge amount of money he hasn’t asked them what they think), and suddenly this is important.

You couldn’t make it up.

Yes, I'm sure a paranoid conspiracy believing, climate change sceptic, Brexit voting anonymous oddball on a football forum like you knows better and is far more well connected than the policy editor of The Times newspaper.

 

[larus]

I suspect that the nuances of EU funding probably wouldn't be enough to sway this specimen but I do agree with your broader point. The campaign (both sides) could have been held from a much more fact based approach, allowing people to make a more educated opinion.

Maybe not, but we are a NET contributor to the EU of circa £8bln, so that accounts for money which the EU then spend back within the UK. And, on top of that, the TARIFFS on 13,000 items which get paid by UK citizens, only 20-25% stay within the UK to cover the administration costs, the rest go to the EU budget.

Anyway, thus is more to do with sovereignty and not monetary. The goal of the EU is a superstate akin to a US of E. It’s ever closer union as it has always done since it’s inception. Small steps but that’s the aim. If you don’t agree on that, then may a politely suggest that some of those calling the leavers thickos do some research.

 

[larus]

Yes, I'm sure a paranoid conspiracy believing, climate change sceptic, Brexit voting anonymous oddball on a football forum like you knows better and is far more well connected than the policy editor of The Times newspaper.

Yeah, an opinion price is fact. Lol.

In regards of global warming, watch this and laugh at him and understand his achievements in the world of climate science.

https://youtu.be/fA5sGtj7QKQ

But, like so many cultists, you’ll believe the likes of Al Gore


Come on, take the piss out of this guy, with all his qualifications and achievements and accuse him of being a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

 

[astralavi]

Looks like typical remainer mathematics. I can only assume you work in government producing stats on the economic impact of Brexit with figures like that.

The sh1tstorm (if we get it), will have been caused by the incompetence of reaminers (TM, Hammond and Robbins) not preparing for a No Deal scenario. We needed to be ready for No Deal, so that means preparing - if your fall-back position is No Deal, you MUST Be ready for this. May is so far out of her depth it’s embarrassing. However, I’m not saying I don’t think we should have tried for a deal - it’s just that too many have tried to thwart a proper Brexit by working with that EU.

Do you remember David Davis saying that the government did not have to do any systematic impact assessments? One year later he is threatening suing the EU for planning for a no deal.

 

[The Clamp]

Maybe not, but we are a NET contributor to the EU of circa £8bln, so that accounts for money which the EU then spend back within the UK. And, on top of that, the TARIFFS on 13,000 items which get paid by UK citizens, only 20-25% stay within the UK to cover the administration costs, the rest go to the EU budget.

Anyway, thus is more to do with sovereignty and not monetary. The goal of the EU is a superstate akin to a US of E. It’s ever closer union as it has always done since it’s inception. Small steps but that’s the aim. If you don’t agree on that, then may a politely suggest that some of those calling the leavers thickos do some research.

Correct. It is done this way to balance wealth disparity. Something which is conveninetly igniored by the Leave mob.

 

[The Clamp]

Yes, I'm sure a paranoid conspiracy believing, climate change sceptic, Brexit voting anonymous oddball on a football forum like you knows better and is far more well connected than the policy editor of The Times newspaper.

Zing!

 

[ManOfSussex]

Yeah, an opinion price is fact. Lol.

In regards of global warming, watch this and laugh at him and understand his achievements in the world of climate science.

https://youtu.be/fA5sGtj7QKQ

But, like so many cultists, you’ll believe the likes of Al Gore

So you post a link to Fox News in regards to global warming which you refer to as a cult again? - It's why in regards to opinions, yours are really of no interest to me in the slightest.

 

[larus]

So you post a link to Fox News in regards to global warming which you refer to as a cult again? - It's why in regards to opinions, yours are really of no interest to me in the slightest.

Listen to who he is and what he says. If you can’t do that, then anything else you post is irrelevant. He was on the original IPCC team which was jointly awarded the Nobel Prize, yet you choose to ignore the video because of the source. How small-minded you are.

 

[The Clamp]

Listen to who he is and what he says. If you can’t do that, then anything else you post is irrelevant. He was on the original IPCC team which was jointly awarded the Nobel Prize, yet you choose to ignore the video because of the source. How small-minded you are.

Probably the most important point of criteria when assessing a news piece.

 

[larus]

Probably the most important point of criteria when assessing a news piece.

They might do a crayon version for you though. I realise intelligent thoughts aren’t your area of expertise.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Listen to who he is and what he says. If you can’t do that, then anything else you post is irrelevant. He was on the original IPCC team which was jointly awarded the Nobel Prize, yet you choose to ignore the video because of the source. How small-minded you are.

As I've said I'm really not interested in the opinion of an a paranoid conspiracy believing, climate change sceptic who refers to it as a cult, Brexit voting, anonymous oddball like you on the internet. As for being small minded you're the past master at it as demonstrated by your ignorance on how borders and logistics work outside of a customs union and just quote the disingenuous waffle of the Honorable Member for the 18th century on the matter like his nanny's lap dog.

 

[The Clamp]

They might do a crayon version for you though. I realise intelligent thoughts aren’t your area of expertise.

Oh right. Sorry I thought you had come on here for debate. It's just you are always whinging that people are too quick to resort to insults on here yet every single time you go on a little internet rampage on this thread, within a handful of posts you are insulting people. For someone who gets things so spectacularly wrong most of the time you really are quick to put others down.

For a moment it looked like, as misguided as your posts are, you were here to have intellignet debate this time. But alas, I see you have not grown up during your absence. I'm sure I'll live with your opinion of me. It's as inaccurate as anything else you type.

 

[The Clamp]

As I've said I'm really not interested in the opinion of an a paranoid conspiracy believing, climate change sceptic who refers to it as a cult, Brexit voting, anonymous oddball like you on the internet. As for being small minded you're the past master at it as demonstrated by your ignorance on how borders and logistics work outside of a customs union and just quote the disingenuous waffle of the Honorable Member for the 18th century on the matter like his nanny's lap dog.

KaaaPOW!!