[Politics] Brexit

[daveinplzen]

They probably had to accept that as part of the deal.

Back on the Brexit line. Possibly, probably, maybe, could be, what might happen, what could happen

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Can't admit the truth I see. Typical.

Not at all. I have been out and just got back in. One of the reasons I voted Leave was to end free movement, and the only way you can do that is by leaving the EU. To truly deliver the referendum result we have to Leave. Leave does actually mean Leave. We will never agree on this, our views are too far apart so I'm going to leave it at that.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Not at all. I have been out and just got back in. One of the reasons I voted Leave was to end free movement, and the only way you can do that is by leaving the EU. I'm not wrong on this one.

You are wrong though. It is a simple statement of fact that [MENTION=15363]Plooks[/MENTION] is making, and he's right.

As you rightly state - you voted to LEAVE, for various reasons, including to end FOM. That's fine - but what you absolutely didn't do is cast a vote to 'End freedom of movement'. That wasn't a poll option. As various others have confirmed, such as [MENTION=25]Gwylan[/MENTION] above, they voted Leave, but wanted to retain FOM. They ticked the same box as you did.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Thats simply not true, I don’t believe all second referendumers who want a vote on the deal are undemocratic loons,dont think [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION] does either,but that is up to him to verify. those that believe for example amongst them Len McCluskey that another vote should exclude a remain option and should focus on how we Leave, are not undemocratic or loony at all……….can you spot the difference to undemocratic weasel loons like you yet?
Thanks for misrepresenting what I have said…….yet again.

Ooo oo I think I might know this one ... is it undemocratic loons who have been calling for a second (stay leave) referendum as soon as the result didn't go their way compared to people who want a vote to make sure the largest democratic event in Uk history is respected and the type of Brexit they voted for enacted?

The Impster ... misrepresenting other peoples opinions... shirley not

 

[JC Footy Genius]

It is not about views or about why you voted leave, it is about delivering the referendum result. That result was to leave and, therefore, retaining free movement etc and leaving the eu delivers this.
How can you disagree on that?

I assume if we had voted to stay in the EU and the government then immediately decided to opt out of the single market .. customs union ... end reciprocal rights for EU/UK citizens, that would be ok then? After all, you only voted to stay .. not how we should stay.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

compared to people who want a vote to make sure the largest democratic event in Uk history is respected and the type of Brexit they voted for enacted?

I'm not sure that would work. You'd need 17 million poll options.

 

[Gwylan]

I assume if we had voted to stay in the EU and the government then immediately decided to opt out of the single market .. customs union ... end reciprocal rights for EU/UK citizens, that would be ok then? After all, you only voted to stay .. not how we should stay.

Even as a Brexiteer, I know this is nonsense. Being a member of the EU means that you have to accept the single market and freedom of movement. On the other hand, it's perfectly possible to vote leave and accept the single market and freedom of movement.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I'm not sure that would work. You'd need 17 million poll options.

Slight exaggeration but the motivations of many of the people now calling for a second referendum are diametrically opposed. There is no workable second referendum option.

 

[Gwylan]

This is interesting - a bit of a blow to all these people who insist the only people who want a second referendum are Labour (it's an invite sent to Tories attending the annual conference).

"On Monday 1st October, Conservatives for a People’s Vote will be holding an event for Conservative minded people to come together and make the case for a People’s Vote. The event will be held at the Novotel Hotel in Birmingham between 1pm and 2pm in the Wedgewood Suite. Justine Greening MP, Phillip Lee MP and Neil Carmichael will be among the excellent speakers. This is outside of the secure area, so you do not require a conference pass to attend.

This event has been organised by our friends at Conservatives for a People’s Vote and represents a great way to show support for those Conservatives who have been brave enough to speak out in the national interest and back a People’s Vote.

Thank you for your continued support.

Best wishes

Stephen Dorrell
Former Conservative Secretary of State,
Leading Supporter of the People’s Vote campaign"

(I should add that I'm just forwarding it, I'm not endorsing a second referendum, I think it's a terrible idea)

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Even as a Brexiteer, I know this is nonsense. Being a member of the EU means that you have to accept the single market and freedom of movement. On the other hand, it's perfectly possible to vote leave and accept the single market and freedom of movement.

Yes obviously .. ever heard of exaggerating to make the point? It is probable that we will only be leaving on terms decided by the people that lost .. which would be similar to staying in on terms decided by Boris, Mogg and Gove.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Yes obviously .. ever heard of exaggerating to make the point? It is probable that we will only be leaving on terms decided by the people that lost .. which would be similar to staying in on terms decided by Boris, Mogg and Gove.

From that, I assume you think the outcome would have been different if Boris, Mogg and Gove had been leading the negotiations/government?

And wasn't it exaggerations (lies) that got us into this clusterf*** in the first place

 

[Gwylan]

It is very enlightening that brexiteers say that they want to leave the eu and it has nothing to do with immigration and yet cant accept the Norway model and keeping freedom of movement. It really highlights them for what they are.

I have no problem with a Norway option. It's not what I'd have wanted at the start of the process but given that the government has made a complete horlicks of the whole process, I'd settle for Norway right now.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Ooo oo I think I might know this one ... is it undemocratic loons who have been calling for a second (stay leave) referendum as soon as the result didn't go their way compared to people who want a vote to make sure the largest democratic event in Uk history is respected and the type of Brexit they voted for enacted?

The Impster ... misrepresenting other peoples opinions... shirley not

Congratulations. You are the first person to be taken in by the latest of Pasta's doomed ventures into smarty-pants semantics.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Yes obviously .. ever heard of exaggerating to make the point? It is probable that we will only be leaving on terms decided by the people that lost .. which would be similar to staying in on terms decided by Boris, Mogg and Gove.

Footy Genius - You backed the wrong horse fella. It's pitiful watching you come back on this thread frankly. Brexit means Brexit -.................. **** off. We're all done for, frankly.

Sucking up to pasta - give it a rest. Lincoln Imp has more knowledge in his rolling eyes that you two numpties ever would.

Me? I despair - utterly despair - at the state of this country.

 

[portslade seagull]

Footy Genius - You backed the wrong horse fella. It's pitiful watching you come back on this thread frankly. Brexit means Brexit -.................. **** off. We're all done for, frankly.

Sucking up to pasta - give it a rest. Lincoln Imp has more knowledge in his rolling eyes that you two numpties ever would.

Me? I despair - utterly despair - at the state of this country.

Leave it then if it's that bad

 

[ManOfSussex]

Leave it then if it's that bad

No - Portslade might be home to you and other people from there - but I had a threesome there in 1998 so sod off.

 

[pastafarian]

I assume if we had voted to stay in the EU and the government then immediately decided to opt out of the single market .. customs union ... end reciprocal rights for EU/UK citizens, that would be ok then? After all, you only voted to stay .. not how we should stay.

Makes you wonder why remainers (including remainer politicians) even bothered to constantly argue the case before the referendum vote that EU freedom of movement was a good thing to vote to keep. Its almost as though they were aware that the consequences of a Leave victory would result in ending free movement.

 

[Cian]

I was accused of exaggurating when I said that no-deal would mean the lights go out in Northern Ireland. Seems HMG are starting to admit there are severe problems in this area at least

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-45657966

NI is dependent on ROI generated power and ROI gas and landed LPG; if supplying that becomes impossible they're back to their own installed non-gas power generation capacity which is grossly insufficient. This is also ignoring the potential issues with using the grids due to the owner of the entire NI electrical transmission and distribution network and the vast bulk of the gas grid - the ROI government. Privatisation of critical infrastructure was really a VERY bad idea.

The plans from the Ulster Workers Council strike in the 80s may be needed again - involved bringing the nuclear subs into Belfast Lough and connecting their reactors up!

 

[wellquickwoody]

It is very enlightening that brexiteers say that they want to leave the eu and it has nothing to do with immigration and yet cant accept the Norway model and keeping freedom of movement. It really highlights them for what they are.

As a firm remainer, I have to say that it is extremely naive to think that unfettered immigration can be good for the UK. It is also true that this snobbish, sly accusation that anyone who thinks differently must be racist is actually one of the reasons that the popular vote said boxxocks to the so called intellectuals.

 

[pastafarian]

What you wanted was to leave or stay. That was the question. Nothing about how or what conditions.

I get what you are saying, unless a condition is mentioned specifically on the ballot question it is not valid.
What do you propose we do in future elections when all that is asked is to put a cross next to the party you are voting for. You could put your cross next to Labour in the next election and claim after that you voted for higher taxes for the richest, higher public spending, an end to austerity and nationalisation of the railways but the ballot paper only says vote Labour and doesn’t mention these conditions at all.
Based solely on the wording on the ballot paper,which you are advocating, you have no right to claim these Corbyn policies are valid.
Do you really dismiss all verbal and written arguments prior to a vote or what a campaign promotes because they don’t appear in the wording on the ballot paper?
Asking for a friend taking a degree in hypocrisy.

Freedom of movement is a good thing. How can it be bad? You get the opertunity to live and work wherever you please in the eu. Why ristrict peoples options?
The referendum vote had NOTHING to do with freedom of movement, look at its wording. So why do so many Brexiteers bang on about borders? Why do theyention soverignty? These things have NOTHING to do with the referendum result. All the result states is that a majority want to leave the eu. It says nothing about borders or sovereignty. So why do they mention them? Why are they trying to remove rlfreedom of movement?

I see, so even though taking back control of our EU borders and removing free movement and returning more sovereignty was not mentioned in the specific wording on the ballot paper you are fully aware Leavers “bang on” about these issues continually now and obviously prior to the vote(im assuming you were not asleep prior to the vote and didn’t notice)
Way to destroy your own argument that these issues had “NOTHING to do with the referendum result”. LOL
Can we play you every week?