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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,099








C

CHAPPERS

DISCO SPENG
Jul 5, 2003
45,092
shingle said:
So are some people that voted remain, so whats your point. :shrug:
Click to expand...

The electorate has changed since we decided to Leave, yet nobody knew what it meant. Now we very nearly do and everyone, even inside government, is arguing about it. New vote needed.

Chequers
No Deal
Stay In.

Which would you all vote for?
 


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,772
Gwylan said:
I think this is unfair to Labour. They want Brexit to be a mess and have no interest in helping out. The Labour view seems to be that the referendum was a Tory decision and the negotiations were a Tory decision and, if it's a disaster, then the Tories will get the blame.

Many, many pages ago, when we Brexiteers were asked how we'd tackle the negotiations, one of the first things I suggested was a negotiating team made up of Conservatives and Labour. That's partly because Starmer is a far sharper tool than Davis, but mainly because if the negotiations didn't go well, the Tories weren't lumbered with all the blame.

The Tories want to shoulder the whole problem and I don't blame Labour for one minute for their approach.
Click to expand...

Although I can see the case for a cross party negotiating team spreading the blame (probably not in Labour's interests !), I can't really see the outcome changing significantly.

We have seen a number of people on here talking about the negotiations and us 'showing our cards' or not being 'tough in the negotiations'. The fact of the matter is that very early on we stated all these red lines and then added the DUPs. From then on, there was nothing to hide and everything from both sides, from the Ireland border issue to all trading figures across the EU were in the public domain.

I can't see how from that point, we were going to get anything other than the 'softest of soft Brexits' or 'No deal'.

The EU were never going to let us pick more of their cherries and the idea from some, that if Boris was in charge we would have done better is just fantasy.

I really believe that from soon after the vote, we have simply watched a narrative get played out whilst politicians from both sides have gone through the motions, and this would have happened regardless of who was on the negotiating team or, indeed, in Government given the position we had put ourselves in :shrug:
 


Pretty pink fairy

Pretty pink fairy

Banned
Jan 30, 2008
31,981
WATFORD zero said:
You're ability to look something up on Google, read the headline and misinterpret it is becoming legendary. You are managing to mix up 'The EU' and ' The World' again :facepalm:

The EU (I've attached images if it helps)
View attachment 100659

Chequers Deal
If we make an agreement with 'The EU', we can have borders, no borders, customs, no customs, unicorns pirouetting up and down the border. We can agree anything we like between ourselves and the EU as to what happens on the Ireland/NI issue, and as long as we both agree, problem solved.

The World.
View attachment 100658

No Deal
If we leave with 'no deal' we have to agree our trading situation with the WORLD Trading Organisation. They like the countries that are trading under them to have borders and customs. This is the organisation that you have been claiming for the last god knows how long doesn't need borders or customs to implement their rules and tariffs. (And, more recently you've also been claiming that post a 'no deal' Brexit, they will all wait while we and the EU try and negotiate an FTA after leaving)

Can you see the difference ?

Now see if you can guess which organisation Mr Barnier represents and which solution his views will effect ?

Now, as you know, I am the first to leap to the defence of Brexiteers when certain posters on here claim they are all thick. But you really aren't helping me at all here, are you :shrug:
Click to expand...
it's all a game of colours , thanks for the geography lesson though ,still leaving
regards
DR
 














G

Garry Nelson's teacher

Well-known member
May 11, 2015
5,257
Bloody Worthing!
WATFORD zero said:
Although I can see the case for a cross party negotiating team spreading the blame (probably not in Labour's interests !), I can't really see the outcome changing significantly.

We have seen a number of people on here talking about the negotiations and us 'showing our cards' or not being 'tough in the negotiations'. The fact of the matter is that very early on we stated all these red lines and then added the DUPs. From then on, there was nothing to hide and everything from both sides, from the Ireland border issue to all trading figures across the EU were in the public domain.

I can't see how from that point, we were going to get anything other than the 'softest of soft Brexits' or 'No deal'.

The EU were never going to let us pick more of their cherries and the idea from some, that if Boris was in charge we would have done better is just fantasy.

I really believe that from soon after the vote, we have simply watched a narrative get played out whilst politicians from both sides have gone through the motions, and this would have happened regardless of who was on the negotiating team or, indeed, in Government given the position we had put ourselves in :shrug:
Click to expand...

Of course we don't know (it's unknowable) what would have happened had genuine Brexiteers formed the entire negotiating team. I suspect that negotiations would have broken down by now. And even if not, we'd be heading for the door marked 'no deal'. Having a PM running scared of the Brexiteers within the party might even turn out worse than having Brexiteers doing the deed? They might have fecked up so badly that the EU would bend over backwards to embrace any successors.
 








pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
WATFORD zero said:
That's right, you have answered when I asked chequers or no deal

Or rather you didn't. 2 and a bit years on, you still can't make up your mind as to what you want between the two extremes :facepalm:
Click to expand...

That’s right I did answer.
Not sure how it was possible to consider the chequers policy 2 years ago, did you not realise it is quite a new release.

Why do you omit the article 50 withdrawal “deal” option from your question? Is it because it is still ongoing.
 


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,772
Garry Nelson's teacher said:
Of course we don't know (it's unknowable) what would have happened had genuine Brexiteers formed the entire negotiating team. I suspect that negotiations would have broken down by now. And even if not, we'd be heading for the door marked 'no deal'. Having a PM running scared of the Brexiteers within the party might even turn out worse than having Brexiteers doing the deed? They might have fecked up so badly that the EU would bend over backwards to embrace any successors.
Click to expand...

Lots of What ifs, but the moment we started down that path, the end was always obvious (IMHO)

Interesting Article in the FT - unfortunately firewalled but the gist The greatest threat to Brexit is now the Brexiters themselves

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/the-greatest-threat-to-brexit-is-now-the-brexiters-themselves/ar-BBNs93W?li=AAnZ9Ug&ocid=mailsignout
 




Pretty pink fairy

Pretty pink fairy

Banned
Jan 30, 2008
31,981
CHAPPERS said:
The electorate has changed since we decided to Leave, yet nobody knew what it meant. Now we very nearly do and everyone, even inside government, is arguing about it. New vote needed.

Chequers
No Deal
Stay In.

Which would you all vote for?
Click to expand...

Crap , leave means leave nothing more nothing less, PEOPLE THAT VOTED LEAVE KNEW WHAT THEY WANTED it's the Grizzlers that think they know better
regards
DR
 


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,772
pastafarian said:
That’s right I did answer.
Not sure how it was possible to consider the chequers policy 2 years ago, did you not realise it is quite a new release.

Why do you omit the article 50 withdrawal “deal” option from your question? Is it because it is still ongoing.
Click to expand...

Because you still not knowing what you wanted was 4 weeks ago, long after the chequers plan was announced

https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?343854-BrExit-the-countdown-to-11PM-GMT-on-Friday-29th-of-March-2019&p=8568207&viewfull=1#post8568207

So, which do you want

Chequers
No Deal
Withdraw article 50 ?
 


melias shoes

melias shoes

Well-known member
Oct 14, 2010
4,830
Simster said:
What sort of stupid question is that? It's just a simple fact.
Click to expand...

Firstly I wasn't asking you and secondly it's a fact that remain voters seem to enjoy telling everyone that lots of Leave voters have died since the referendum. It's all over other sources of social media.
 










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