[Politics] Brexit

[The Rivet]

As an aside, Sweden is finished it would seem. Turkeys voting for Christmas!

 

[WATFORD zero]

198 days

Tick tock

 

[ManOfSussex]

Assume whatever you like about my rationale for putting the X where i did,certainly wasnt anything you have so far come out with.
I was perfectly comfortable in deciding whether it was better to be IN or OUT based on the long term interests of the nation, quite a simple choice in the end.

That's very noble of you pasta. The thing is though, others on this thread have commented on the fact you come across as sneering, a bit of a ****er and generally unpleasant. Now I'm not going to argue with them, but to me you come across more as being like The NSC Brexit thread version of Boris Johnson - Public school, Tory, Brexit backing, arrogant, buffoonish, full of blue sky, grandiose ideas that are little more than bluster and hot air with zero substance. (Though obviously your sexual encounters are far more online than his) So with all things considered I think there's a better than average chance that what someone like you considers to be in the interests of the nation and what is actually in the interests of the nation being mutually exclusive.

I fully appreciate though that the thought of Brexit and the future is now terribly exciting for you. You feel empowered, part of something and no longer marginalised. For me though it's a resigned air of despair and depression in equal measure. The way I see it is this:

Never-ending austerity with goodness knows what further austerity measures to be introduced as the economic reality of this idiocy really kicks in and another squeeze on living standards.

The break up of the union. (The United Kingdom, not The European Union) To me it's now a question of when, not if on both Scottish independence and Irish unification and all the political, social, economic upheaval it'll bring.

Apropos to both austerity and Scotland, we face the upcoming nonsense of Trident renewal and somehow finding the money out of the defence budget and basing it in a territory that doesn't want it and wishes to breakaway from London. Goodness knows what a new Naval base in Cumbria would cost on top of that, but frankly the whole thing should be scrapped as we're just the emperor with no clothes and such delusions of grandeur as a country really should be dropped.

Goodness knows what to come politically and socially as this idiocy plays out - it's quite frightening frankly. The thought of Rees-Mogg as PM terrifies me every bit as the thought of the showers at Eton College in his school days after a Wall Game terrify him.

Lastly, there's elephant in the room - at some point in the next 10 years on top of all the above, The Queen will pass away. Put to one side the ensuing grief, both faux and genuine, that will follow that will make those nauseatingly, embarrassing days of September 1997 look dignified in comparison, but there'll be an awful lot of genuine soul searching and hand wringing as to who we all actually are now. I'm not talking about The United Kingdom of England and Wales becoming a republic like Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica etc will but the introspection will be profound.

With all things considered and being perfectly honest, blue passports aren't much of consolation I'm afraid.

 

[Stat Brother]

***Genuine question alert***

Who from the Brexit campaign is left in front line politics?

 

[Gwylan]

The break up of the union. (The United Kingdom, not The European Union) To me it's now a question of when, not if on both Scottish independence and Irish unification and all the political, social, economic upheaval it'll bring.

That implies it's a bad thing. One of the reasons that I voted to leave was precisely because the problem of the NI border would mean Irish unification more likely

 

[ManOfSussex]

That implies it's a bad thing. One of the reasons that I voted to leave was precisely because the problem of the NI border would mean Irish unification more likely

I think the resulting sectarian violence and loss of life that would occur in regards to Irish unification happening, coupled with the fact I don't want the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to break up makes it a bad thing. Each to their own though.

 

[Gwylan]

I think the resulting sectarian violence and loss of life that would occur in regards to Irish unification happening, coupled with the fact I don't want the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to break up makes it a bad thing. Each to their own though.

I think there'd be more of a loss of life if a hard border was imposed on the two countries.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I think there'd be more of a loss of life if a hard border was imposed on the two countries.

Perhaps. Irish unification will not be pretty though. It's one reason why this whole Brexit debacle should never have happened as no consideration was given to the practicalities in Ireland back in June 2016 and nobody from Vote Leave advocated leaving The EU would result in the break of The UK as a positive virtue of Brexit. Of all the turkeys that voted for Christmas, I'd laugh at The DUP if it all wasn't so tragic.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

That implies it's a bad thing. One of the reasons that I voted to leave was precisely because the problem of the NI border would mean Irish unification more likely

I very much doubt that you would give that opinion in Belfast.

 

[Baldseagull]

That implies it's a bad thing. One of the reasons that I voted to leave was precisely because the problem of the NI border would mean Irish unification more likely

It is a bad thing to force it on a population that doesn't want it.

 

[Gwylan]

It is a bad thing to force it on a population that doesn't want it.

I'm not suggesting forcing in on people - quite the reverse, in fact. An overwhelming majority of people don't want to see a hard border imposed. And, if the choice is between a hard border or closer integration with ROI, I would suggest that all but the hardline Unionists would opt for closer integration.

I don't think this would mean total unification instantly but that would be the end result a few years down the line.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

The reason i mentioned privatisation and EU diktat is that they are mentioned on the RM website in the quote you are taking "the race to the bottom" and "sick of austerity" from as reasons for leaving and implied they were the only reasons , its odd you omitted them from such a small quote, although i understand your whole reasoning was to portray any RMT members reasoning as now invalid.Perhaps that was the intention of your source as well, what was it out of interest. I wouldnt mind reading it.


http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmts-mick-cash-pledges-national-rail-fight-over-pay-cap/

Speaking on Brexit and the talk of a second vote, Mick Cash said;

"Trade unionists voted in droves to leave the EU because they are sick of austerity, the race to the bottom on jobs and pay and the privatisation of services like the railways which is all wrapped up in EU diktat.
"The problem we have now is that the terms of Britain's withdrawal are being negotiated by a useless and divided Tory government that is a global laughing stock.
"The only vote now that matters is a general election and the sooner the better. The talk of a second vote on the withdrawal terms is a defacto second referendum whichever way you try to dress it up and risks becoming a trojan horse for civil unrest on our streets."

I'm not sure why you say it was odd that I 'omitted' Cash's privatisation reference - as I pointed out it didn't appear in the report I drew on. (It was in the BBC news feed last night - it's still there.) In fairness to the BBC its report covered a great deal of ground and included brief summaries from a number of conference speakers as well as Cash. Given that the woolly wording (I suspect designed to mislead) of this latest Cash reference to privatisation I can understand the BBC's subs not including it.

 

[Baldseagull]

I'm not suggesting forcing in on people - quite the reverse, in fact. An overwhelming majority of people don't want to see a hard border imposed. And, if the choice is between a hard border or closer integration with ROI, I would suggest that all but the hardline Unionists would opt for closer integration.

I don't think this would mean total unification instantly but that would be the end result a few years down the line.

Funny that. You kind of have my hopes about us and Europe for Ireland and N.I. What is that makes the difference between the situations for you?

 

[cuthbert]

***Genuine question alert***

Who from the Brexit campaign is left in front line politics?

Chris Grayling, Oh I see your point

 

[Ernest]

Anyone doubting that peace in Northern Ireland is a fragile thing should have watched the 'Massacre at Ballymurphy' on Saturday night .

 

[larus]

Remainers look away now. Seriously bad news has been published today about the economy. (Well, bad for the doom and gloom merchants anyway )

GDP growth for the last 3 months has been 0.6%. Some perspective for you remainers on this. France/Italy were 0.2% in their last quarter. Germany 0.5% in it's last quarter. Euro area 0.4%.

Where's this recession we were promised? Where are these job losses that were forecast? Where's the house price crash? Even with all of the uncertainty, the economy keeps chugging along steadily.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45470689

 

[B-right-on]

Funny that. You kind of have my hopes about us and Europe for Ireland and N.I. What is that makes the difference between the situations for you?

Because Ireland was once a single country until we decided to cut off some of it for 'us. Because they are physically one island. Because they speak the same language. Because they prime difference between the 2 is "only" their religion. And so on....

 

[Simster]

Remainers look away now. Seriously bad news has been published today about the economy. (Well, bad for the doom and gloom merchants anyway )

GDP growth for the last 3 months has been 0.6%. Some perspective for you remainers on this. France/Italy were 0.2% in their last quarter. Germany 0.5% in it's last quarter. Euro area 0.4%.

Where's this recession we were promised? Where are these job losses that were forecast? Where's the house price crash? Even with all of the uncertainty, the economy keeps chugging along steadily.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45470689

I've given up looking at economic indicators, regardless of whether they support my argument or not because I believe their relevance to Brexit has diminished since 2016. BigGully posted some article about rising house prices and then nonsensically suggested they showed Brexit in a positive light. Equally, we've had declines in these quarterly indicators before - they're not indicative of Brexit either. The mood seems to be that consumers and business are carrying on as normal. Businesses will prepare for Brexit of course, but the impact on the economy won't be felt until it actually happens.

I think it'll be interesting to see how the economy does compared to those in the EU after March 2019 but my suspicion is that in the months immediately following Brexit our economy will flat-line (at best) while the German/French economies boom owing to the relocation of business previously settled in the UK. I just hope I'm wrong.

 

[larus]

I've given up looking at economic indicators, regardless of whether they support my argument or not because I believe their relevance to Brexit has diminished since 2016. BigGully posted some article about rising house prices and then nonsensically suggested they showed Brexit in a positive light. Equally, we've had declines in these quarterly indicators before - they're not indicative of Brexit either. The mood seems to be that consumers and business are carrying on as normal. Businesses will prepare for Brexit of course, but the impact on the economy won't be felt until it actually happens.

I think it'll be interesting to see how the economy does compared to those in the EU after March 2019 but my suspicion is that in the months immediately following Brexit our economy will flat-line (at best) while the German/French economies boom owing to the relocation of business previously settled in the UK. I just hope I'm wrong.

I actually agree Simster. I’m just trying to point out that certain posters have been very quick to jump on the quarterly indicators when they show softness/slowing down as proof that the vote to leave is having an effect.

The problem with this stuff is it’s a strawman argument. Would things have been different in we’d voted remain compared to leave? Who knows? Reaminers will say yes and leavers no.

It’s the same as the treasury forecasts of the impact to the economy in 10-15 years time. Christ, they can’t even predict 12 months accurately, so how can the possibly predict that far with all of the uncertainties around. It’s all BS.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Ah bless, I do think it's sweet when you try to join in

no need to get upset , we're on our way
regards
DR