[Politics] Brexit

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Pretty poor understanding from Brexit central

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M67TTESjfrQ

Classic case of one guy who knows what he's talking about shredding a guy who hardly has a clue. I wonder which one was which?

 

[portslade seagull]

That express article reads like the rambling of a madman. They are going to make us join the euro? Where is the proof of this?

Are you referring to Barnier there

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Um no, that is wrong, it was in the context of free trade agreement after we leave not the brexit negotiations,some people are still incapable of separating the two
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...trade-deal-after-brexit-easiest-human-history
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40667879/eu-trade-deal-easiest-in-human-history

Sorry: I was out of order. It's going to be easy-peasy and Liam's words will prove to be the gallows from which the Remainer phoneys and troublemakers will swing for eternity Seriously don't we have the negotiations that determine the terms on which we leave (eg with a free trade deal) before we leave? Otherwise what are we negotiating? And even if we were in Liam-land does anyone seriously believe it would be 'easy'? I'm sure in his quieter and more reflective moments Dr Fox rather regrets this utterance. Maybe one day we'll know when he writes his autobiography.


Anyway let's move on and find something else to argue about. How about England's line-up for the 4th Test?

 

[astralavi]

Things are getting better
https://youtu.be/ue1hnZw27cs

 

[portslade seagull]

No this:
"Speaking on*TalkRadio, he said: “They’re going to remove us from us being able to say we can’t be in the*euro. So in five to seven years, they are going to say we have to be in the euro or we are going to be forced into it."

I mean...what!?

Not sure that will happen

 

[Baldseagull]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...ro-eurozone-today-vote-no-deal-Michel-Barnier

https://www.leavemeansleave.eu/
regards
DR

I liked the headline on the Farage Video. "May can't back Brexit because she doesn't like to lie" Yes Nigel, it does seem to be a prerequisite of backing Brexit, to have no qualms about lying.

 

[knocky1]

Things are getting better
https://youtu.be/ue1hnZw27cs

This shows what May is prepared to do to get the best Brexit deal. She Whatsapped this video to Michael Barnier and promised to do one of her random, crazy, dance routines in front of the EU Parliament, if they would be a bit nicer in the negotiations.

Soon be time for us all to start dancing.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Still, it wasn't all bad for Mrs May on her visit to the 68th largest economy in the world. As well as pointing out that no British PM had bothered to visit his country for 30 years until now, for whatever reason, their freely and fairly, democratically elected President had an unfortunate memory lapse that amused her. (I guess arrogant, embarrassing, white, male, public school, Brexiteer Tories look and sound the same to him - who can blame him)

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96eSrFlUVh0

Could this man be in any way related to our current PM?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

It is not lazy in the slightest. Even if I know the stats and data people who post it NEED to include a citation. That way it is possible to tell when people are making shit up, using bad sources, making incorrect assumptions or are actually telling the truth.
So...where is this mythical citation?

No - nobody has a NEED to post a citation - you just WANT them to. Given you've never backed your posts up with a citation it seems a bit hypocritical for you to expect others to do so.

 

[WATFORD zero]

No - nobody has a NEED to post a citation - you just WANT them to. Given you've never backed your posts up with a citation it seems a bit hypocritical for you to expect others to do so.

If I remember rightly this relates to something pastafarian posted. Since he has a history of posting bullshit and with no proof, wouldn't it be best if we just assume this is more of the same and then you and Plooks can get a room somewhere to discuss the funding of education and live happily ever after

 

[WATFORD zero]

Nobody got any updates on Brexit then ?

Tick Tock

 

[ManOfSussex]

I read Barnier and Raab are having a marathon 6 hour session today alone, thrashing things out and probably not being to get anywhere the end of it, despite all that time. I think our mate Pasta might have the same problem at night time with his interests on the internet, hence him having to take his frustrations out on here in his early morning rampages.

 

[vegster]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45366390


Damn them ! why do they have to keep doing sensible things like this and abolishing phone roaming charges ?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Well look at this post that I just found from last year at the start of the negotiations

I really can't see anything beyond the three options

1/ Soft Brexit with No borders and regulatory alignment

2/ No agreement and WTO

3/ Withdraw article 50

Shirley, any negotiation now will only be minor fine-tuning on one of the above

Spooky Huh ?

 

[larus]

Yes - complex indeed. But as far as I know there is a consensus among those dreaded experts (eg University of Sussex UK Policy Trade Observatory) that regardless of the specific Brexit arrangements that prevail, any change will be worse than what we've currently got with our major trading partner and will lead to negative economic consequences. The only issue really is jut how bad these will be. Anything other than an acceptance of this verges on the delusional; that 's the starting point.

What I think might clarify matters is that when (if ever!) the specific Brexit plan is known (eg May's dubious White Paper) we'll get a range of projections based on explicit assumptions to let us know the range of outcomes. At that point the ERG can and should of course also contest these and generate alternative models to put before Parliament and/or the British people (don't hold your breath); but let's face it, we have to be grown-up enough to stop the bleating about Project Fear and take projections and forecasts seriously - from both sides.

The ERG (if we take these as the High Priests of Brexit) has been very quiet in producing alternative forecasts. Perhaps they're keeping their ammo dry.

Yes, the precise outcome will never be knowable but it doesn't mean we have to ignore evidence. Let's be sensible about this and I agree take some of the emotion and rhetoric out of it - eg 'the easiest deal in history', which still stands as one of the most irresponsible utterances of any British politician since 'peace in our time'.

PS if you could reference where you read about the tariffs It would be good to look at that

Apologies for the delay in replying.

First, I can’t remember where I read that future - I’m pretty sure it was on an opinion price by Roger Bootle in the Telegraph (I may be wrong on that).

Must say I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. Of course, I have some different interpretations on where we are and why we are here. In regards to being the easiest deal in history - the reality is it should be. Why? (I hear you asking ).

OK, as we are starting from a position of convergence in terms of regulations, this should be easy. Free movement and oversight by the ECJ are not required for a trade-deal. Canada/Japan don’t need either of these so why should the UK?

In regards of projections/forecasts, the biggest problem now is that lack of respect from both sides and the manipulation of statistics to present a favourable view. For example, the delight that many took on here when it looked as though we were bottom of the G7 GDP growth league, or that Greece had a higher growth rate than us, which, after publishing the revised figures proved to be wrong, just goes to show how difficult it is to have a serious debate. There was no acceptance that the EU are still running an expansionary monetary policy (lower interest rates plus QE). Also, the Project Fear debacle and some of the statements still coming from Hammond have ruined any perception of fairness.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Apologies for the delay in replying.

First, I can’t remember where I read that future - I’m pretty sure it was on an opinion price by Roger Bootle in the Telegraph (I may be wrong on that).

Must say I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. Of course, I have some different interpretations on where we are and why we are here. In regards to being the easiest deal in history - the reality is it should be. Why? (I hear you asking ).

OK, as we are starting from a position of convergence in terms of regulations, this should be easy. Free movement and oversight by the ECJ are not required for a trade-deal. Canada/Japan don’t need either of these so why should the UK?

In regards of projections/forecasts, the biggest problem now is that lack of respect from both sides and the manipulation of statistics to present a favourable view. For example, the delight that many took on here when it looked as though we were bottom of the G7 GDP growth league, or that Greece had a higher growth rate than us, which, after publishing the revised figures proved to be wrong, just goes to show how difficult it is to have a serious debate. There was no acceptance that the EU are still running an expansionary monetary policy (lower interest rates plus QE). Also, the Project Fear debacle and some of the statements still coming from Hammond have ruined any perception of fairness.

Thanks.

As I write this some 'encouraging noises' are coming from the latest negotiations. I remain a convinced (if not convincing) Remainer for all sorts of reasons (a mixture of principles and pragmatism) but perhaps we are moving into a different phase of the negotiations. But I'd really avoid that word 'easy' like the plague...…………..

 

[larus]

Thanks.

As I write this some 'encouraging noises' are coming from the latest negotiations. I remain a convinced (if not convincing) Remainer for all sorts of reasons (a mixture of principles and pragmatism) but perhaps we are moving into a different phase of the negotiations. But I'd really avoid that word 'easy' like the plague...…………..

I don’t think anyone of the posters on this thread has changed their opinion, so none of us can consider ourselves convincing .

I very much hope that any agreement we achieve is not based upon chequers. That really is the worst outcome - in effect a vassal state which I don’t see as being stable. It may placate some on the remain side in the short-term, but this will subjugate us to being rule takers with no input into those rules. I’m sure you can see that from a leavers perspective this would be viewed as betrayal of the leave vote (and another nail in democracy). If this was the eventual outcome, I can see further issues within 5 - 15 years (hard to really quantify) as the rules which the EU imposes would be created to benefit them and not us.

If there is a sensible negotiated agreement then this would be good news for all parties, but I, like many leave voters, don’t fear No Deal. I accept there will be disruption, but I know (believe) that, once this is accepted as the new order of things, both sides will work towards a sensible, pragmatic outcome. If the EU wanted a trade deal with Canada, then why would then not want one with the UK? Canada doesn’t need to accept the ECJ nor Free Movement.

 

[pastafarian]

Sorry: I was out of order. It's going to be easy-peasy and Liam's words will prove to be the gallows from which the Remainer phoneys and troublemakers will swing for eternity Seriously don't we have the negotiations that determine the terms on which we leave (eg with a free trade deal) before we leave? Otherwise what are we negotiating? And even if we were in Liam-land does anyone seriously believe it would be 'easy'? I'm sure in his quieter and more reflective moments Dr Fox rather regrets this utterance. Maybe one day we'll know when he writes his autobiography.


Anyway let's move on and find something else to argue about. How about England's line-up for the 4th Test?

No, a Free Trade Deal is not part of the terms of our leaving. The withdrawal agreement (eg divorce bill, citizens rights, transition, separation protocols) does not contain a free trade deal and has never been intended. (see Article 50, withdrawal & future relationship framework)
A Free Trade Deal will only be finalised and concluded when we have left and we are no longer a member of the EU. Watford zero didnt understand this and now you, are there any more remainers in this blind spot.......perhaps all those who are calling for another vote on the final deal, before the final deal will be errr..... finalised.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Pasta is here! Lets have a song.