[Politics] Brexit

[larus]

Thanks for posting that [MENTION=240]larus[/MENTION].

It's an interesting article on a number of levels, not least because the journalist who wrote it is an avowed Blairite. I certainly identify with his opening paragraph, as while I voted to remain, I'm also of the opinion that we should act in that most British of ways and 'make the best of it'. An incompetent PM, combined with an intransigent EU, is proving an obstacle to success, alas.

The problem has been that a portion of the remain side have clearly tried to thwart the will of the people. If there had been engagement and a united front, I would hope that we would be in a better position.

However, politicians from all sides are too blinkered and positions have become entrenched.

I agree about TM (and I’m a natural Tory voter under normal conditions). She is dire. Crap as a Home Secretary, disasterous election campaign and totally lost in the Brexit negotiations. She’s also appeared to be trying to scupper Brexit with her tactics too.

It is a shower of shit now, and both sides need to accept responsibility.

 

[Baldseagull]

It might not be an EU project,but the amount of re-financing going through as non-state aid approved by the EU should raise an eyebrow,plus loads of rumours about ever-changing standards of materiel, requiring never finished rebuilds,with fees going through the EU's office on site.If there is no corruption,why is the airport still incomplete?

View attachment 99003

Sounds like a messed up project and the EU has bailed it out with loans with the German state guaranteeing the loan, now there might be some fiddling going on somewhere, but it doesn't seem to be that the EU is either causing a problem, being ripped off or are on the fiddle.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

It won't happen. Maybe in your imaginary world it might. People will not stabd by and let the government strip us of our rights and history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBoPRJ375Ok
are you related to Watford bloke or this chap


regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Sounds like a messed up project and the EU has bailed it out with loans with the German state guaranteeing the loan, now there might be some fiddling going on somewhere, but it doesn't seem to be that the EU is either causing a problem, being ripped off or are on the fiddle.

who cares , I mean who really cares ……..bye bye EU
regards
DR

 

[Baldseagull]

Interesting view point in a telegraph article

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/23/remainersmay-terrify-eu-rigidity-allowing-us-finally-have-good/

At last Remainers are getting with the programme! It took some time. More optimistic types (guilty!) predicted before June 23, 2016, that if there were a Leave vote, the whole country, including those disappointed by the result, would unite behind the country’s democratic decision and help make the best of it. That is, after all, what Britain’s long history of democratic principles would guarantee.

But such optimism turned out to be misplaced. Democracy was only important when the people made the correct decision – part of the small print of which I had previously been unaware. When former Prime Minister John Major told Andrew Marr in December 2015: “If we come out, we are out. That’s it. It’s not politically credible to go back and say we’ve reconsidered, let’s have another referendum,” it was on the strict, though softly-spoken, understanding that his advice should only be followed in the event of a Remain victory. We know this because the same Sir John told Robert Peston last week: “Is there a case for a second referendum? Undoubtedly there is.”

Nevertheless, Sir John is playing his part in strengthening the hand of the new Brexit Secretary, Dominic Raab, by spreading fear and panic over the prospect of Britain departing the EU next March without any kind of negotiated deal or transition period agreed.

Allow me to explain…

In the long months leading up to the unveiling of Theresa May’s so-called Chequers Plan earlier this month, all talk of a “hard Brexit” had ceased to be taken seriously. While certain fringe figures on the Conservative Party’s Right wing still talked dreamily of reverting to World Trade Organisation rules and of how the EU had as much to lose from a no-deal deal as the UK had, ministers were (accurately) perceived to have rejected Mrs May’s early pronouncement that no deal was preferable to a bad one.

When the Prime Minister finally unveiled her negotiating position, including long-term acceptance of the EU “rule book” for export goods, and the possible negative consequences for the prospects of our ability to negotiate free trade deals with third countries in future, we could see just how far along the road from the “no deal is better than a bad deal” rhetoric we had come.

The resignations of David Davis and Boris Johnson did not spell the imminent collapse of the government, but, alongside a survey that suggested only minority support among the Tory Party’s grassroots for the plan, they concentrated everyone’s minds on the next crucial developments. For there are few who don’t expect Michel Barnier and Guy Verhofstadt barely to glance at Mrs May’s paper before reaching for the rubber stamp in the shape of the word “Non!”

And then what? That’s the problem with making every concession you’re prepared to make at the very start of negotiations – if even they are rejected as too little, where do you go? Suddenly the prospect of crashing out of the EU without a deal (and without paying our £39 billion divorce fee) seems much likelier than before Chequers.

Before this month, no one took any minister seriously when they warned of the consequences of a no-deal Brexit. Now, ministers don’t even have to open their mouths – the Remainers are all over the media doing their job for them.

The real fear is that if we exit the EU with no negotiated deal, we will become like every other non-EU country – short of food and medicines, cut off from the rest of the planet (the EU) because our planes would be grounded. And just like every other country outside the EU, there would be deaths, thousands of them, because of civil disorder and unprecedented violence.

The key thing is this: even if most of us recognise that such rhetoric is not based on reality, those who are saying it do actually believe it. And therein lies its usefulness. Just as the nuclear deterrent is pointless unless our global enemies believe the government would actually press the big red button if it had to, so with a no-deal Brexit. The EU27 are paying close attention to the debate in the UK and are taking careful note of the fear in the eyes of Remainers who, in between excavating their basements and stockpiling Pot Noodles, are telling any media outlet that will listen that the end is almost certainly nigh. They believe a no-deal is a real possibility; the EU27 may also consequently be persuaded of the same likelihood.

Who knows? Instead of the EU’s negotiators sitting David Walliams-like in front of a database of the EU’s rules and regulations and responding to Britain’s proposals with the Gallic equivalent of “Computer says no”, they might actually start to display the degree of flexibility and reasonableness that are expected of mature, sensible organisations.

That being the case, our Remainer friends, once they’ve calmed down a bit by breathing into a paper bag for a few minutes, can be acknowledged for having played their part. Their own genuine convictions about the Brexit Armageddon may be exactly what we need to avoid it happening in the first place.

——————————

The next couple of months will be interesting as we’ll know for certain whether or not the EU are happy for a No Deal outcome. If there’s no movement from them, it appears that’s the likely outcome.

The problem is this, no deal is not an option, both sides are trying to con the other that they are prepared to go that way in the hope the other will see sense and swerve, what I think is most likely is that the brakes get put on at the last minute and we either have an extension to negotiations, or we leave on an EEA footing. No one, not even Rees-Mogg for all his statements to the contrary, would take us out and leave us in regulatory limbo, especially if we accompanied departure with a "whistle for it" response to the divorce bill.

 

[Baldseagull]

who cares , I mean who really cares ……..bye bye EU
regards
DR

People with a more than a couple of brain cells.

 

[larus]

The problem is this, no deal is not an option, both sides are trying to con the other that they are prepared to go that way in the hope the other will see sense and swerve, what I think is most likely is that the brakes get put on at the last minute and we either have an extension to negotiations, or we leave on an EEA footing. No one, not even Rees-Mogg for all his statements to the contrary, would take us out and leave us in regulatory limbo, especially if we accompanied departure with a "whistle for it" response to the divorce bill.

Unless the EU bend somewhat, then it will be No Deal (maybe after a limited extension). The Chequers deal won’t get through parliament, and TM won’t be able to offer any more concessions.

So what gives to give the UK a deal which is acceptable AND holds to the spirit of what people voted for?

The Remain side say that we should accept whatever the EU say. The Leavers want to tell them to stick it.

Yep, it is a mess, and as I said in my last post, this mess has been caused by both Remain and Leave. One side saying it’s the other really doesn’t help.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

People with a more than a couple of brain cells.

you're having a tough time coming to terms with our departure from the EU , don't have nightmares
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Where are you moving to?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/9...-May-European-Union-Brexit-speech-Bob-Stewart
regards
DR

 

[Baldseagull]

Unless the EU bend somewhat, then it will be No Deal (maybe after a limited extension). The Chequers deal won’t get through parliament, and TM won’t be able to offer any more concessions.

So what gives to give the UK a deal which is acceptable AND holds to the spirit of what people voted for?

The Remain side say that we should accept whatever the EU say. The Leavers want to tell them to stick it.

Yep, it is a mess, and as I said in my last post, this mess has been caused by both Remain and Leave. One side saying it’s the other really doesn’t help.

To give us an acceptable deal that holds the spirit of what people voted for is a fantasy.

 

[larus]

To give us an acceptable deal that holds the spirit of what people voted for is a fantasy.

That is my view too, which is why I think it will be No Deal. Democracy will prevail, whether you think it’s the best decision or not is irrelevant. TM will be ousted if she keeps on her course, and a Brexiteer will be chosen, followed by a promise to implement Brexit and then go to the country for a GE. Just my take on things.

 

[larus]

Where are you moving to? Britain is in the EU, Britain will remain in the EU. To leave is to throw away our identity as Europeans. These idle threats by MPs do not scare us.

Probably the same place in Europe that you moved to!

 

[portslade seagull]

Probably the same place in Europe that you moved to!

Promised to move to then back tracked on it after abusing the leave vote and saying it would be better elsewhere.

 

[Baldseagull]

That is my view too, which is why I think it will be No Deal. Democracy will prevail, whether you think it’s the best decision or not is irrelevant. TM will be ousted if she keeps on her course, and a Brexiteer will be chosen, followed by a promise to implement Brexit and then go to the country for a GE. Just my take on things.

You don't think it fair to tell people that the Leave promises were a fantasy, and ask for their current democratic opinion? In the piece you quoted, the chap hoped that we would all get behind the decision and make it work, but if the promises were always unworkable, what then?

 

[larus]

You don't think it fair to tell people that the Leave promises were a fantasy, and ask for their current democratic opinion? In the piece you quoted, the chap hoped that we would all get behind the decision and make it work, but if the promises were always unworkable, what then?

Sure.
But will the Remain side then admit that everything they said in the Project Fear was a pack of lies?
And will they say that, if there were to be a different outcome, no more powers can be transferred ever to the EU without another vote? No EU army, no funds from the UK to bail-out EUROZONE countries, etc.
And if people get disillusioned with the EU in say another years time, we’d be allowed another vote in case we’ve changed our minds again?

I’m sure others could add to the list,

 

[AK74]

You don't think it fair to tell people that the Leave promises were a fantasy, and ask for their current democratic opinion? In the piece you quoted, the chap hoped that we would all get behind the decision and make it work, but if the promises were always unworkable, what then?

As the journalist is a Blairite, I'm sure the words 'third way' won't have been far from his mind as he wrote the article.

 

[pastafarian]

Where are you moving to? Britain is in the EU, Britain will remain in the EU. To leave is to throw away our identity as Europeans. These idle threats by MPs do not scare us.

Unless you have paid to renounce your citizenship and acquired the nationality of another country(highly doubtful) you are still a British citizen sunshine not European.

 

[pastafarian]

Currently both. Born British and European. Seems odd one can just be torn away from you.

One of them is in your head

 

[pastafarian]

They both are. They are both just randomly assigned. We had nothing to do with them.

Tell you what, you apply to renounce your British Citizenship and when they ask for proof of your new nationality to complete the application you scribble on the form “ I am European”. Let me know how that pans out for you.
Even better, tell the gov dept handling your application you dont need proof of your new nationality because your British one is in your head only and randomly assigned.......should work out a treat.

 

[pastafarian]

Well, if it is not randomly assigned, why did you choose to be British? What other choices did you have?

There was nothing random about being born here, parents had it all planned.
You know storks dont randomly distribute babies dont you?