[Politics] Brexit

[Lincoln Imp]

Have either side come up with a genuine plan to deal with a no deal? Whatever we can’t do when we exit with no deal will also affect the EU massively even if it affects us more. For example how are Spain going to be able to cope with the lack of UK tourists when our planes are stuck on the ground and can’t get to the Costas?

I can’t see a situation where the EU would want a no deal either so perhaps we should now push hard for what we want and put the pressure on them for once

We don't hold many aces but there are certainly benefits in a deal for EU members and it still seems likely we'll get some sort of arrangement. May will be hugely helped by the acquiescence of the Brexit boys, who simply want to get us past March 29th. They figure than once we're out they can let themselves off the leash. May's survival hopes will then be about the same as a 1940 Spitfire pilot's.

 

[Triggaaar]

So since the vote to leave, the world has become more unstable and security has been compromised. And your argument is what exactly?

That we're still in the EU, so our security forces are still working alongside their EU counterparts, and any security issues are clearly not because of the Brexit vote. It's not complicated.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

We don't hold many aces but there are certainly benefits in a deal for EU members and it still seems likely we'll get some sort of arrangement. May will be hugely helped by the acquiescence of the Brexit boys, who simply want to get us past March 29th. They figure than once we're out they can let themselves off the leash. May's survival hopes will then be about the same as a 1940 Spitfire pilot's.

I think we all realise that May is just keeping the seat warm until we exit and someone else can take the country forward whatever party they represent

 

[JC Footy Genius]

That all sounds a bit John 14:6 to me.

Do you think you might be Jesus?

Unlikely as I think Jesus was probably a Lib Dem or a socialist ... more in your ballpark as is Judas

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Have either side come up with a genuine plan to deal with a no deal? Whatever we can’t do when we exit with no deal will also affect the EU massively even if it affects us more. For example how are Spain going to be able to cope with the lack of UK tourists when our planes are stuck on the ground and can’t get to the Costas?

I can’t see a situation where the EU would want a no deal either so perhaps we should now push hard for what we want and put the pressure on them for once

That would make a pleasant change and what we should have been doing all along.

 

[larus]

They do get it that this is about more than economics. My sadness that the UK is taking this course of action has very little to do with economics. I suspect that many sharing my view about Brexit feel the same way and I would be deeply grateful if you would stop characterising us all as soulless bean counters. It is patronising stereotyping.

Having said what I've just said about economics, it is easier for some people - people in my position, for example - to be dismissive of money stuff. A downturn might knock my asset values but it won't really affect my income. For others it can make a huge difference to the sort of life they and their families have. I understand their worries.

Don't too make the mistake of thinking that Remainers disregard issues such as democracy and controlling our own destiny. I am not sitting here writing this to trash your view of these things, so please don't trash mine when I say I don't think our democracy or independent control will be improved in any practical way by leaving the EU. In fact, I think the latter might even diminish. It's all about opinions of course.

Incidentally, your post above didn't have anything to do with the one it responded to.

Your post said about asking for their money back in 2068, so it appeared to be about money. I didn’t watch to clip of JRM.

Notwithstanding that, thank you for a courteous and considered response. Maybe if there was more like that on here the level of friction would be finished noticeably.

I only dip in and out of this thread as I find the adversarial nature and blinkered responses frustrating - I will include myself in that as I get annoyed by the constant comments from the Remain supporters that the Leavers are stupid, racist/xenophobic and old, and that we believed the £350m for the NHS statement etc. As you say, the reality is far more nuanced and, if everyone is honest, no one really knows how this will pan out.

Once we leave, there will be disruption. Most leavers expect that, but it will be short-term for most things. Other things may take longer to resolve. However, the leavers view things like parliamentary democracy as more important than some short-term disruption. That will be overcome and resolved. I accept that MPs leave a lot to be desired, but I actually have more confidence in the UK parliament to set legislation for the benefit of the UK than I do the technocrats in the EU who are not accountable.

The other issue which alienates the leave voters is that they don’t seem to accept that a number of people who may have noted to remain did so out of the fear from the remain campaign. They only seem to think that the leave side was at fault. If you read the link from my post a short while ago, the remain campaign/government has now been criticised by a cross-party committee.

Would you admit that there is a history of lies to the electorate from government/business on this subject of the EU/EURO? We’ve had threats about business moving away before and nothing happens both in regards the EURO and also if we voted to leave, not when we leave.

 

[larus]

Have either side come up with a genuine plan to deal with a no deal? Whatever we can’t do when we exit with no deal will also affect the EU massively even if it affects us more. For example how are Spain going to be able to cope with the lack of UK tourists when our planes are stuck on the ground and can’t get to the Costas?

I can’t see a situation where the EU would want a no deal either so perhaps we should now push hard for what we want and put the pressure on them for once

They are beginning to wake up to this now. Some commentators that I have read are summising that the EU have overplayed their hand on the assumption that we will just capitulate. Now, I don’t know if this is true or not, but IMO, we Brits are amenable to a point, but then we can be bloody minded. I think there are more people (by this I mean people who voted remain but maybe were split and not hardened as most of us on here will be) who now see the EU trying to bully and rubbish the country and have had enough. No deal hurts both sides, but the scare stories are just so OTT. The Irish PM saying that UK planes won’t be able to fly over Irish air space - yeah right. It’s crap like that which will lead to more anger I feel.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Do behave, I know you may miss your European employed cleaner when we leave but ... big business, bankers responsible for the financial crisis, the corporate elites, the UK - European- global political establishment are all on your side as are the EU federalists represented by HT and Baldy seagull who say the poor and desolate of Greece had it coming with mass unemployment and increased suicides.

For corporate I'm all right jack voice of Goldman Sachs apologists see every remainer on this thread.

Outrageous. She is not European, she’s Brazilian, made England her home. probably a bit uncomfortable for many of the nationalists on here.

So the Eu is to blame for the financial crisis, and remainders their apologists. And it wouldn’t have happened with Rees-smog, boris and Farage in power. Brilliant.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Good work If only all immigrants had equality to enter our great county rather than the prejudicial EU system favouring mainly white Europeans supported by little Eurolanders over the mainly brown peeps from our global friends.

No bankers are .. who all supported Remain as did the Tory establishment.

 

[GT49er]

The hard nationalist right leaders have made sure they are ok, even if their followers aren’t. Rees Mogg, the Eaton educated nanny raised man of the people, has >£100m wealth and as a partner of Somerset Wealth is enjoying the benefits of a company based in the EU in Dublin (with subsidiaries in a few tax havens). Boris also went to Eaton and a member of the infamous upper class elite Bullingdon Club, often associated with members and acts with pigs. Farage went to Dulwich college, another private school, and then went into the city. And the anti immigrant leader was married to EU “foreigners” from both Ireland and Germany. The latter whom he employed to ride what nationalist right wingers would call the “EU gravy train”. His kids have German passports.

They will be fine and they know it. You won’t be.

What and where is this 'Eaton' of which you speak? Are you trying to demonstrate the intellectual superiority of remainers by introducing something you (and your fellow intelligent remainers are familiar with) which you presume us ignorant leavers won't ever have heard of? Bit of a failure if that was the case............................................

 

[Hampster Gull]

What and where is this 'Eaton' of which you speak? Are you trying to demonstrate the intellectual superiority of remainers by introducing something you (and your fellow intelligent remainers are familiar with) which you presume us ignorant leavers won't ever have heard of? Bit of a failure if that was the case............................................

Good spot, spelling error again. On the rest, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Shame

 

[GT49er]

I only dip in and out of this thread as I find the adversarial nature and blinkered responses frustrating - I will include myself in that as I get annoyed by the constant comments from the Remain supporters that the Leavers are stupid, racist/xenophobic and old, and that we believed the £350m for the NHS statement etc.

.
Well said - it has been said before, of course, by me and several others, and on this thread too - but it needs to be said. It still hasn't seeped through the brain-fuddle of some of the more desperate remainers; certainly not the remoaner faction of remain, anyway. Perhaps it never will, until their grand-children and great grand-children, living normal lives in the same way that most of us do now, will wonder what the fuss was all about.

The other issue which alienates the leave voters is that they don’t seem to accept that a number of people who may have noted to remain did so out of the fear from the remain campaign. They [remainers] only seem to think that the leave side was at fault. If you read the link from my post a short while ago, the remain campaign/government has now been criticised by a cross-party committee.

Would you admit that there is a history of lies to the electorate from government/business on this subject of the EU/EURO? We’ve had threats about business moving away before and nothing happens both in regards the EURO and also if we voted to leave, not when we leave.

TBH, I think you might have to wait until hell freezes over before you get that admission!

 

[GT49er]

Good spot, spelling error again. On the rest, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Shame

No chip at all. Just happy to point out the flaws in the 'Remainers are intelligent, Leavers are thick racists' notion so beloved of the political establishment and its hangers on.........

 

[vegster]

What and where is this 'Eaton' of which you speak? Are you trying to demonstrate the intellectual superiority of remainers by introducing something you (and your fellow intelligent remainers are familiar with) which you presume us ignorant leavers won't ever have heard of? Bit of a failure if that was the case............................................

You may laugh but Moggy's cash is safe and he will survive whatever type of Brexit occurs, those who have suffered 10 years of austerity, and erosion of pay and conditions will be the ones who will suffer most. Yes, the ones that misguidedly thought that Brexit would create some kind of economic utopia. It's going to be a very hard realisation.

 

[Hampster Gull]

No chip at all. Just happy to point out the flaws in the 'Remainers are intelligent, Leavers are thick racists' notion so beloved of the political establishment and its hangers on.........

More chips

 

[GT49er]

You may laugh but Moggy's cash is safe and he will survive whatever type of Brexit occurs, those who have suffered 10 years of austerity, and erosion of pay and conditions will be the ones who will suffer most. Yes, the ones that misguidedly thought that Brexit would create some kind of economic utopia. It's going to be a very hard realisation.

Hello there! Missed the point again, but........................................

 

[GT49er]

More chips

More chips? No. I can't speak for you though.

 

[Stat Brother]

 

[vegster]

Er? You had a point in amongst that rambling drivel?

Hello there! Missed the point again, but........................................

 

[Berty23]

They are beginning to wake up to this now. Some commentators that I have read are summising that the EU have overplayed their hand on the assumption that we will just capitulate. Now, I don’t know if this is true or not, but IMO, we Brits are amenable to a point, but then we can be bloody minded. I think there are more people (by this I mean people who voted remain but maybe were split and not hardened as most of us on here will be) who now see the EU trying to bully and rubbish the country and have had enough. No deal hurts both sides, but the scare stories are just so OTT. The Irish PM saying that UK planes won’t be able to fly over Irish air space - yeah right. It’s crap like that which will lead to more anger I feel.

Ah. That must explain why the polls monitoring whether the decision to leave was right have for the last few months shown a trend towards it being wrong.