[Politics] Brexit

[Hampster Gull]

Out of interest, which parts do you deny? You may disagree with interpretation but those things quoted are all pretty much facts.

Sent from the boot of Lingard

What does all pretty much facts mean? Does it mean they are actually facts or they maybe facts? It was the usual sensationalism. We live in a complex world, there will always be issues to resolve regardless

 

[Deleted member 22389]

That link is from 9 months ago. It was shown to be nonsense then and funnily enough it's still nonsense. Are you an idiot? Or do you take us for idiots?

The link is 9 months old, but it is still very relevant. Call me an idiot, doesn't bother me.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Merkel has been actively fast tracking Turkey to join the EU, the first one is visa free travel to the EU Zone in return for billions of pounds of our money and holding back the refugees and economic migrants, but as we have seen it isn't working.

It is written here in black & white.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...bership-in-exchange-for-help-to-a6699071.html

The rule book goes out of the window when the EU needs things doing.

And don't forget the speech CMD gave in Turkey saying he would fully support them joining the EU.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Watching John Major on the Andrew Marr show and he feels that the Brexit camp have been misleading the public on the amount of money we pay into the EU. I think he is right but he neglects to mention that both sides have been doing the same. A bit ironic as well that he goes on to accuse Brexit of hypocracy for claiming that if Turkey joins then Turks will come here for the higher minimum wage while also claiming that immigration depresses wages. He says that the two are inconsistent which they clearly aren't as the wages here are higher than in Turkey etc but would be even higher with less labour competition/immigration (ie the disparity between the UK and Turkey would be even higher). Mr Major is an intelligent man so I can only assume he is deliberately misleading the viewers. It just adds to my feeling that the standard of debate on NSC has been considerably higher than anything I have seen from politicians on either side.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

What does all pretty much facts mean? Does it mean they are actually facts or they maybe facts? It was the usual sensationalism. We live in a complex world, there will always be issues to resolve regardless

Okay, let me pick two.

I am supposing that as you disagreed with the original post and are an adherent of the EU, that you don't for instance think that Greece is in a lot of trouble and not for one minute do you believe that some eastern members of the EU refused to allow any migrants in.

Sent from the boot of Lingard

 

[Bakero]

Merkel has been actively fast tracking Turkey to join the EU, the first one is visa free travel to the EU Zone in return for billions of pounds of our money and holding back the refugees and economic migrants, but as we have seen it isn't working

There are about 2.5 million Syrian refugees in Turkey so something must he working.

 

[herecomesaregular]

I'm leaning Out but I don't think it'll make a jot of difference.
The Scots, Welsh and Irish (here) will vote Remain by a huge proportion imo.
England will be more evenly split, probably 55:45 Remain but even if it tips slightly towards Out it won't matter as the Scots, Welsh, Irish will carry Remain over the line.

 

[Buzzer]

Saddled with Turkey joining it all makes me feel very uneasy with remaining. Having a chat in the pub Friday night this debate came up and out of 8 people round the table everyone said they are or have voted out.

I am still unsure but certainly leaning out unless I am giving some decent argument why we should stay.

Turkey scares the bejasus out of me. Erdogan is a closet ISIS supporter and has been buying oil from ISIS. It's not even a functioning democratic country. It's a dictatorship with strong links to supporting the kind of terrorism that has Western Europe as its target.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Watching John Major on the Andrew Marr show and he feels that the Brexit camp have been misleading the public on the amount of money we pay into the EU. I think he is right but he neglects to mention that both sides have been doing the same. A bit ironic as well that he goes on to accuse Brexit of hypocracy for claiming that if Turkey joins then Turks will come here for the higher minimum wage while also claiming that immigration depresses wages. He says that the two are inconsistent which they clearly aren't as the wages here are higher than in Turkey etc but would be even higher with less labour competition/immigration (ie the disparity between the UK and Turkey would be even higher). Mr Major is an intelligent man so I can only assume he is deliberately misleading the viewers. It just adds to my feeling that the standard of debate on NSC has been considerably higher than anything I have seen from politicians on either side.

Which is worrying. I would like more clarity on the Red lines for Brexit negotiations and more clarity on how we reduce immigration rates without full control of our borders, deal with housing demand while protecting the environment, find school places, fund increased use of NHS services, improve integration of record numbers of migrants and reform the EU in a direction more to our liking if we stay in.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

On the way to the cricket on Friday I was impressed to see a group of Remain campaigners at the severn dials, pretty much on each corner, giving out leaflets and talking with people. Its the first proper campaigning I have seen.

Most the journalists seem to think that the whole battle bus thing and traveling around by the big wigs is just for gaining TV and press coverage and that they actually spend the minimum amount of time around people, get the money shot then get out. Trying to avoid gaffs I imagine.

Nearly all the people I speak to now have voted already due to being on the postal register, myself included.

 

[Two Professors]

There are about 2.5 million Syrian refugees in Turkey so something must he working.

There have been more than that since the civil war in Syria started-it happens to be next door,and moslem,so quite handy.Nothing to do with the recent EU deal.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I'm leaning Out but I don't think it'll make a jot of difference.
The Scots, Welsh and Irish (here) will vote Remain by a huge proportion imo.
England will be more evenly split, probably 55:45 Remain but even if it tips slightly towards Out it won't matter as the Scots, Welsh, Irish will carry Remain over the line.

I fully expect that if the Celtic vote tips the balance, that Nicola Sturgeon will be calling for the English to have an independence vote. After all, it wouldn't be fair that Scotland's voters would dictate to the English, would it?

Sent from the boot of Lingard

 

[beorhthelm]

i see today the claim we'll be paying more for mortgages if we leave. fact is everyone expects interest rates to rise 0.5 -1% in the next couple of years anyway. the fact they havent despite predictions from the same circles, means their forecasts are flawed. if thats a contradiction, it serves to show the politicans and economist dont really now where the economy is heading.

meanwhile this week, the US Bond/UK Gilts spread was the widest ever, due to our gilts lowering yeild. so the cost of borrowing is currently lower than it has ever been relative to US. that market driven fact doesnt fit with the political claims.

 

[cunning fergus]

i see today the claim we'll be paying more for mortgages if we leave. fact is everyone expects interest rates to rise 0.5 -1% in the next couple of years anyway. the fact they havent despite predictions from the same circles, means their forecasts are flawed. if thats a contradiction, it serves to show the politicans and economist dont really now where the economy is heading.

meanwhile this week, the US Bond/UK Gilts spread was the widest ever, due to our gilts lowering yeild. so the cost of borrowing is currently lower than it has ever been relative to US. that market driven fact doesnt fit with the political claims.

Absolutely.

I had the pleasure of watching The Big Short recently, which should be compulsory viewing for anyone who wants to put up the arguments of economists and so called experts as some kind of paragons of truth and reliable foresight with this debate.

I noted Gove mentioned it today, but never is there a clearer example of how banks and Govts got together to **** over the people.

The Leave campaign should pay to have it on a loop on a satellite channel.

 

[brighton fella]

The PROBABLY word is being used again. This time if we leave mortgages 'Probably' won't rise. Then again they could.

Brilliantly swerved again and for the very last time...... WHY is the growing unrest within nation states of Europe being aimed specifically at the EU ?

Sorry The question is in ENGLISH...would it help if i translated it in to German ?

 

[drew]

Brilliantly swerved again and for the very last time...... WHY is the growing unrest within nation states of Europe being aimed specifically at the EU ?

Sorry The question is in ENGLISH...would it help if i translated it in to German ?

Why don't you actually provide the links to all these reports of unrest on the continent that you have apparently researched?

 

[Bakero]

There have been more than that since the civil war in Syria started-it happens to be next door,and moslem,so quite handy.Nothing to do with the recent EU deal.

Impressive point missing.

 

[Soulman]

Why don't you actually provide the links to all these reports of unrest on the continent that you have apparently researched?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hakb6S0IpgY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwNkNIvCCeM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPkAqfk_jnU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoBbw-_mbFs

A sad video.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44vzMNG2fZc

 

[sir albion]

I'm leaning Out but I don't think it'll make a jot of difference.
The Scots, Welsh and Irish (here) will vote Remain by a huge proportion imo.
England will be more evenly split, probably 55:45 Remain but even if it tips slightly towards Out it won't matter as the Scots, Welsh, Irish will carry Remain over the line.

You presume although I'd bet most Welsh vote out....I'm going for 55/45 to leave as these polls are a waste of time and most working classes and pensioners will vote out.

Hopefully the gutless blind remainers will come to their senses as things will get really really bad in years to come if we stay in this grim organisation.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Brilliantly swerved again and for the very last time...... WHY is the growing unrest within nation states of Europe being aimed specifically at the EU ?

Sorry The question is in ENGLISH...would it help if i translated it in to German ?

Putin covertly funding EU breakup movements as a strategic early part of his hybrid war against the EU/US ?