[Politics] Brexit

[Westdene Seagull]

Vote Leave broke electoral law on 4 charges. Note the cynical press release by the BBC, when everyone is celebrating the England win (yes JC, I was waving my England flag) instead of allowing the Electoral Commission to publish their own results. A good day to publish bad news eh?

This should mean the referendum is null and void.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44704561?SThisFB

Actually it doesn't make the referendum result null and void. Why ? Because, as remainers take delight in telling us so often, it was an advisory referendum. It was an act of Parliament that activated Article 50 not the referendum.

 

[CHAPPERS]

New York Times on Russian collusion with Aaron Banks. Why aren't the British press investigating this?

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...e=tw&utm_medium=s3&utm_campaign=sharebutton-t

Paul Wood at the BBC has written various articles on all of this.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Paul Wood at the BBC has written various articles on all of this.

Writing articles which aren't widely read. This should be reported and investigated on main tv channels.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Actually it doesn't make the referendum result null and void. Why ? Because, as remainers take delight in telling us so often, it was an advisory referendum. It was an act of Parliament that activated Article 50 not the referendum.

Article 50 can be revoked at any time right up to March 29th. Yes, it was an act of Parliament but based on lies, and deceit.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Actually it doesn't make the referendum result null and void. Why ? Because, as remainers take delight in telling us so often, it was an advisory referendum. It was an act of Parliament that activated Article 50 not the referendum.

Interesting. So it doesn't make the actual result of the referendum null and void, because the referendum was advisory? Therefore if the referendum was binary it would have? Or is it because Article 50 is a separate process, subject to an act of parliament that could be revoked with another act, but it doesn't really matter anyway because Brexit means Brexit? Or is it just the case that you're playing the whataboutery card and don't know really what you're talking about?

 

[Baldseagull]

I don't regret how I voted. You have to vote with your conscience, they asked a high level question so my reasoning had to be high level rather than get bogged down in the propaganda like many do on this thread - I've disliked the EU ever since they pushed through the constitution/Lisbon treaty. Nobody will ever convince me that a federal Europe is a good idea, I'm against centralising political control and would support a devolved uk and more power to regional government. The commission and Parliament have power over too many people and it will end in tears.

However, I didn't expect that the incumbent government would call a referendum and then have absolutely no plan whatsoever for 50% of the possible outcome. You couldn't vote on what Farage, Boris or vote leave are saying because none of them were in power, the blame lays at Cameron's feet because he had no contingency for losing. I'm happy to admit it's a total f**k up, but I'd vote leave again because I believe avoiding the federal control is more important than maintaining the current status quo, I just wish we had the kind of united government that it would take to do it properly. May's opponents in the EU and domestically know she is in a weak position and are using it against her at every opportunity.

I agree that as much control as possible should be as local as possible, but clearly some things are best dealt with at the widest possible level. The referendum was just about maintaining the status quo though, it is in UK law that any further treaties or amendments of existing treaties would require a referendum to agree it before the UK could sign up, so if the status quo was OK with you, you voted the wrong way.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Nigel Farage still deceiving the people.

On LBC at 7pm
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nigel-farage/the-nigel-farage-show-3rd-july-2018/



https://twitter.com/jonathan_church/status/1014427371078930432

[tweet]1014427371078930432[/tweet]

Even better (because we know he was on LBC at the time of the match)

https://twitter.com/danielstorey85/status/1014454611510546432

[tweet]1014454611510546432[/tweet]

 

[Baldseagull]

Not wanting to see the country go to the dogs......
So lets have a think about that shall we? Is there anyone out there who actually thinks that what we have had has been fantastically good for us. If there is, then they are a mixture of naive and ill-informed.
THE FACTS.
1) 80% of the business we do as a nation, is within these shores. Our foundation is the SME sector. That is our bedrock. People get carried away with the idea that we rely on big, corporate business. Small and medium sized enterprises are the lifeblood of this country.
2) We are a service based nation. 80% of our business is in services.
3) We have an annual trade deficit of approx £135billion.
4) We run a surplus in services to the EU and the rest of the World.
5) We have a vast deficit with Europe in goods.
6) The trading arrangements of the EU are designed to suit manufacturing countries ( principally Germany ) by sweeping away barriers to a free trade in goods. WE ARE NOT A MANUFACTURING COUNTRY.
7) The trading arrangements of the EU do not suit us as a country. It nullifies our strengths and amplifies our weaknesses.

We had plenty of time, over the years to re-negotiate terms but failed time and time again. A German controlled EU had no interest in changing the trading balance. Why would they? The EU is not compromising. It is driving forward, hell bent on expansionism and federalism. We continued to pour more and more money in and get less and less in return. Its a bureaucratic gravy train, so self-seeking politicians love it. Its their executive directorship at vast six figure salary and its their pension. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
People can argue all they like about freedom of movement, human rights, safety and protection, border controls and many other things but we have to put our country in a position that suits our trading profile best.
Unless you understand how we operate as a country, you cannot analyse the best way forward.

You think access to a market of 250 million people without impediment nullifies our strengths as a services orientated economy?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Nigel Farage still deceiving the people.

On LBC at 7pm
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nigel-farage/the-nigel-farage-show-3rd-july-2018/



https://twitter.com/jonathan_church/status/1014427371078930432

[tweet]1014427371078930432[/tweet]

Even better (because we know he was on LBC at the time of the match)

https://twitter.com/danielstorey85/status/1014454611510546432

[tweet]1014454611510546432[/tweet]

Seriously who gives a ******* shit.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Nigel Farage still deceiving the people.

I thought that about Euro 96 when I saw his Tweet too. In fairness to the 'man of the people' England were playing India at Lord's in the 2nd Test when we played Spain, so he was probably in an executive box there, in a blazer with a panama hat on, drinking Veuve Clicquot talking to his chums from school and the city.

 

[Two Professors]

Celebrating England's win last night? Wave those English flags.

https://twitter.com/lucamitch23/status/1014273462947450880

[tweet]1014273462947450880[/tweet]

So are you saying that England won by lies and deceit,so the result should be null and void?

 

[Two Professors]

It's only 12% that is non-British, European born.

Are you sure?That many French gone home already?

 

[beorhthelm]

It's the over 25% from the EU that's the problem.They've put house prices up way beyond what the entitled generation can afford.

no, EU workers earning £10p/h are not responsible for house prices averaging >£500k. these sorts of views are an embarrassment to the leave cause.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Interesting. So it doesn't make the actual result of the referendum null and void, because the referendum was advisory? Therefore if the referendum was binary it would have? Or is it because Article 50 is a separate process, subject to an act of parliament that could be revoked with another act, but it doesn't really matter anyway because Brexit means Brexit? Or is it just the case that you're playing the whataboutery card and don't know really what you're talking about?

Love how remainers play the whataboutery card when they don't understand. So, the Electoral Commission investigated Leave EU a while back and decided there was no firm case to answer. A legal expert in these matters pushed the matter which forced the commission to investigate further. That lead to today's revelations. That same legal expert was asked today on Radio 4 if that meant the referendum result could be voided and the referendum re-run. His answer was no, as the referendum was advisory and the act of leaving the EU was entirely decided by parliament and can only be reversed by parliament. Therefore all this getting excited about over turning the result based on this investigation is pointless .... nothing more than a sideshow giving some remainers a wet dream.

 

[Baldseagull]

Love how remainers play the whataboutery card when they don't understand. So, the Electoral Commission investigated Leave EU a while back and decided there was no firm case to answer. A legal expert in these matters pushed the matter which forced the commission to investigate further. That lead to today's revelations. That same legal expert was asked today on Radio 4 if that meant the referendum result could be voided and the referendum re-run. His answer was no, as the referendum was advisory and the act of leaving the EU was entirely decided by parliament and can only be reversed by parliament. Therefore all this getting excited about over turning the result based on this investigation is pointless .... nothing more than a sideshow giving some remainers a wet dream.

No legal requirement to reject the advisory result and overturn A50, it does make it a little more politically acceptable though.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Love how remainers play the whataboutery card when they don't understand. So, the Electoral Commission investigated Leave EU a while back and decided there was no firm case to answer. A legal expert in these matters pushed the matter which forced the commission to investigate further. That lead to today's revelations. That same legal expert was asked today on Radio 4 if that meant the referendum result could be voided and the referendum re-run. His answer was no, as the referendum was advisory and the act of leaving the EU was entirely decided by parliament and can only be reversed by parliament. Therefore all this getting excited about over turning the result based on this investigation is pointless .... nothing more than a sideshow giving some remainers a wet dream.

I understand entirely, hence I wasn't talking about the referendum result being voided simply because it was advisory or otherwise as you still are, and Brexit means Brexit being reversed as a consequence. Article 50 has now been invoked and is law and it can only be revoked by another act of parliament.

 

[nicko31]

New York Times on Russian collusion with Aaron Banks. Why aren't the British press investigating this?

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...e=tw&utm_medium=s3&utm_campaign=sharebutton-t

The waters around Brexit just get murkier and murkier. UK democracy really is under attack, sadly the Tories have not helped

 

[ManOfSussex]

Are you sure?That many French gone home already?

My figures are based on the 2011 census. We obviously have had 5 whole years of Theresa May as Tory Home Secretary since then, presiding over her hostile environment on immigration and successfully running the 'tens of thousands' net migration target, such as 2015's 330,000+ figure, including 90,000 Tier 2 visas issued to non-EEA nationals by The Home Office, so I concede it could be higher now.

 

[pastafarian]

Vote Leave broke electoral law on 4 charges. Note the cynical press release by the BBC, when everyone is celebrating the England win (yes JC, I was waving my England flag) instead of allowing the Electoral Commission to publish their own results. A good day to publish bad news eh?

This should mean the referendum is null and void.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44704561?SThisFB

When the lib dems and the official remain campaign were fined by the commission for breaches during the referendum did you call for all remain votes to be null and void?

 

[Two Professors]

no, EU workers earning £10p/h are not responsible for house prices averaging >£500k. these sorts of views are an embarrassment to the leave cause.

I am not on about people on the minimum wage.Lots of French top earners,the largest by number,live in London to try and avoid the top rates of tax.Nothing embarassing about that,unless you are a tax avoider,like some of the remainers on here.