[Politics] Brexit

[pastafarian]

Do you seriously believe that most of the MPs in Westminster, certainly all the Lib Dems, Greens and SNP, plus most of the PLP and half the Tories - not to mention the House of Lords aren't totally anti-Brexit, and that all the political shenanigans is aimed at hindering, hampering and delaying Brexit, in the hope it will ultimately not happen? If you seriously believe that, then I really worry about your powers of observation and deduction.

And as for your suggestion that the idea of the Westminster establishment trying to avoid actually leaving is a conspiracy theory, that's absolutely bonkers. The flat earthers look intelligent by comparison.

Astonishing isnt it.
You only have to watch a debate in parliament, maybe read it in Hansard. See what some politicians are saying,see how some vote and see what they are proposing via amendments to keep us in the single market, keep us in the customs union, keep free movement, keep the primacy of the ECJ in multiple areas, keep us aligned to this or that as rule takers to comprehend there is a section of them trying their utmost to wreck the vote to leave.
You must have your head firmly buried in the sand not to be aware of this.

 

[nicko31]

I remember the good old days when leavers could pretend German car makers would insist on a deal. Turns out different.

I see BMW have been talking again. Now saying that any border delay means that they move all production from the UK. I seem to remember our manufacturing expert on this thread say that German car manufacturers would make merkel make a deal. Not sure that is right is it?

Nissan have also said this to MPs and it has been reported that a five min delay a day on their just in time production line would make the Sunderland plant unprofitable. Can that be true?

https://www.ft.com/content/b6a382f2-...7-1e1a0846c475

We are the 5th biggest exporter globally of cars in 2017, worth $42B,

Stand up for Brexit towns and stay in the customs union FFS

 

[astralavi]

We are the 5th biggest exporter globally of cars in 2017, worth $42B,

Stand up for Brexit towns and stay in the customs union FFS

'F**k Business' Best wishes, BOJO

 

[nicko31]

'F**k Business' Best wishes, BOJO

Where is he today, thought he was voting against Heathrow?

 

[Berty23]

We are the 5th biggest exporter globally of cars in 2017, worth $42B,

Stand up for Brexit towns and stay in the customs union FFS

But will of the people....

 

[pastafarian]

Will of the people is only has credibility if Eng, Scot, Wal and NI all voted for Brexit with at least 60 / 40.

Will of the people only has credibility if Eng, Scot, Wal and NI all vote to remain or rejoin the EU with at least 60 / 40 in any future referendum........cool, thanks.

 

[Two Professors]

Serious question the the vocal leavers. Now that Siemens, airbus and BMW have gone public about investment going if no deal or no customs union (in any form), how many more need to join them before you think that no deal might be a bad idea?

I seriously hope that they clear off,and repay all the taxpayer aid they have pocketed before they go.
100s of thousands of lorry movements less will cut down all the blockages at the ports you whiners are always on about,less pollution,less wear on the roads,thousands of EU nationals who work at these sites going back,relieving pressure on the NHS,housing,and benefits budgets,in fact the sooner they clear off,the better!

 

[Two Professors]

Where is he today, thought he was voting against Heathrow?

Perhaps you could join him in Afghanistan?We could easily crowd-fund you,if the Afghans would let you in
I'm sure they'd love you.

 

[Two Professors]

The inference is that he leaked numbers. I realise that gamblers bet on polls.

OOH a conspiracy,don't you want to start a new thread?Is Soros involved?

 

[Berty23]

I seriously hope that they clear off,and repay all the taxpayer aid they have pocketed before they go.
100s of thousands of lorry movements less will cut down all the blockages at the ports you whiners are always on about,less pollution,less wear on the roads,thousands of EU nationals who work at these sites going back,relieving pressure on the NHS,housing,and benefits budgets,in fact the sooner they clear off,the better!

If this is a joke then it is magnificent. If you believe this then it is worrying.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Serious question the the vocal leavers. Now that Siemens, airbus and BMW have gone public about investment going if no deal or no customs union (in any form), how many more need to join them before you think that no deal might be a bad idea?

Leaving is still a great idea. If they want to **** off then so be it, but nobody has actually left yet. What people predict and what actually happens will be completely different.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Anyone who did not want to see us get ever closer to the EU would have had the chance to say so at the referendum that is required by UK law before any treaty change would be agreed to, so not logical to get out if that was the only issue. Many of the people concerned about the rate of immigration were deliberately led to conflate assylum seekers with EU migrants, misled as to the effect on the countries finances, and the power we already have to refuse entry on security grounds. The EU has done more towards regeneration of deprived areas of the UK than UK government has, you are a mug if you think that the UK government will do better than the EU on this score.
Stick to your will of the people argument, it is the only one you have with any legitimacy.

Forgive this particular leave voter for not trusting a promise from a party that said we would get a referendum on the Lisbon treaty ... and they get to define what triggers the referendum criteria. In addition, any new government can change the law at any moment and last but by no means least we all know the EU can circumvent democratic opinion blocking the ever closer union, expressed via a referendum ... see EU constitution/Lisbon Treaty. People not wanting continued large-scale immigration from the EU would logically vote leave. The bullsh*t about having the ability to significantly limit or control this (peddled in the Guardian and on here) is just blatant ill-informed lying. The EU sends UK taxpayers money back to the UK, your view any UK government wouldn't spend it in a similar or better way is just biased opinion.

Advancing the ever closer union/superstate goal is predicated on avoiding asking for specific democratic mandates and hoping to reach a point of no return. You know this, I know this .. pretending otherwise is deceitful.

 

[nicko31]

If this is a joke then it is magnificent. If you believe this then it is worrying.

Posts that desire that 40k people lose their jobs are best ignored

 

[Berty23]

Leaving is still a great idea. If they want to **** off then so be it, but nobody has actually left yet. What people predict and what actually happens will be completely different.

You do know that companies have a legal obligation to protect shareholders so if it makes economic sense to move then they will. This affects the whole supply chain and all other local businesses who benefit from employees of these big companies spending their wages. It would be negligent for companies not to plan to leave in case we get no deal. This will not just affect those employed but all of us who will see our services hit.

This is project reality.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Do you seriously believe that most of the MPs in Westminster, certainly all the Lib Dems, Greens and SNP, plus most of the PLP and half the Tories - not to mention the House of Lords aren't totally anti-Brexit, and that all the political shenanigans is aimed at hindering, hampering and delaying Brexit, in the hope it will ultimately not happen? If you seriously believe that, then I really worry about your powers of observation and deduction.

And as for your suggestion that the idea of the Westminster establishment trying to avoid actually leaving is a conspiracy theory, that's absolutely bonkers. The flat earthers look intelligent by comparison.

I think if you check my post was referring to the discussion with respect to manufacturers and job loss forecasts. Are they part of the conspiracy? Of course I accept that most of the political parties, institutions, think-tanks, economists, business-people (UK and European), academics and almost anyone else with half a brain are concerned that Brexit will have some very negative consequences. Does this add up to an Establishment conspiracy - or just a number of overlapping principles,interests and (I daresay) visions of the common good?

Where does the 'Establishment' start and finish? And what is a 'conspiracy'? Might not Jacob Rees-Mogg and his Eton-educated pals be located in most folk's idea of an 'Establishment'? And, further, might not the activities of some areas of the rabidly Brexit press also be interpreted as 'conspiracy'?

I just think these terms are a bit of a lazy and bandied about very casually and without a great deal of thought, although I please also note I did say 'some' of the Brexiteers were prone to this. (Unfortunately I think you might have just opted in to this sub-set.)

But let's agree that 'conspiracy' might just be - like beauty - in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Two Professors]

If this is a joke then it is magnificent. If you believe this then it is worrying.

I not only believe,I would positively welcome it.Perhaps it might help the EU lower its mass unemployment a bit.Maybe they could employ some of the 10,000 people being made redundant by Deutsche Telekom this week.Oh didn't you know about any job losses in Europe?Perhaps try taking off your EU tinted glasses,eh?

 

[Two Professors]

Posts that desire that 40k people lose their jobs are best ignored

How about posts offering you a one-way trip to Afghan?

 

[nicko31]

'F**k Business' Best wishes, BOJO

The guy is unsackable, such a weak PM

 

[beorhthelm]

I really really hope this will stick. He needs to be charged and locked up.

...

Anyone on Twitter read Carole Cadwalladr who writes for the Observer and Guardian, who had does loads of investigative journalism on the whole sorry mess.

this story is saying that hedge funds interpreted polling data differently to political commentator's consensus - this is a surprise? private polling data being sold isnt a story worthy of the name "journalism".

 

[beorhthelm]

I think the point is that Farage had access to this data, ...

what data? he'd have reports from the count, same as anyone else, polling data is compiled by pollsters and sold to their clients. i wouldnt put it past him, but this is giving him too much credit that he knew somethings others didnt.