[Politics] Brexit

[The Clamp]

You see, your propensity to believe that you have read things that don't exist is one of the reasons why I went for Fantasist over Naive

 

[pastafarian]

You see, your propensity to believe that you have read things that don't exist is one of the reasons why I went for Fantasist over Naive

And it does show how desperately poor Egypt v Uruguay is that you are providing a more entertaining alternative

Border controls exist, the fantasy that chasing people up after they have already entered constitutes border control will remain the viewpoint of the disingenuous and liars, its an argument they have now lost anyway, will of the people and all that. Im really not surprised to learn you are confused on this too, after all you didnt even know our EU trade agreement cant be finalised until we have left. Try and keep up chap.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

I can't recall seeing a profile of ERG members but here is what a random ten of them do. They are simply the first 10 names in an alphabetical membership list. Representative presumably.

Lucy Allan PWC accountant and investment manager, married to stockbroker.

Sir David Amess Underwriter, recruitment consultant

Richard Bacon Investment banker, financial journalist and PR consultant

Kemi Badenoch Software engineer (and confessed hacker!), lawyer, assoc director at Coutts

Sir Henry Bellingham Barrister, director of Longborough Capital, Environmental Polymer Technologies and Arc Fund Management

Bob Blackman BT employee

Peter Bone Accountant

Andrew Bridgen Owner of food produce company

Sir Bill Cash Solicitor

Simon Clarke Solicitor, assistant to Dominic Raab

Thanks mate. I particularly like the aptly-named Sir David Amess! Surprised there isn't a Sir Rodney A Complete Feck-up too...……….

 

[JC Footy Genius]

They are politicians, they are doing this to play along with the naive and simple of mind who still think there are options

ie You

(And as for what all the Remain factions would want, the clue is in the name)

Good grief that's the type of answer I would expect from Clampy/Nibble/Nicko. Risking their careers and threatening the stability of the government to 'play along' so the public think we have options.

Remainer MP's have numerous factions including those that fully accept the result (bravo), others saying they accept it while doing everything to undermine it (splitters), the EEA crew, the second referendum gang and the blatant ignore the will of the people undemocratic loons to name but a few.

Perhaps you could provide a sensible response this time or maybe just admit a no deal outcome is possible

 

[WATFORD zero]

Good grief that's the type of answer I would expect from Clampy/Nibble/Nicko. Risking their careers and threatening the stability of the government to 'play along' so the public think we have options.

Remainer MP's have numerous factions including those that fully accept the result (bravo), others saying they accept it while doing everything to undermine it (splitters), the EEA crew, the second referendum gang and the blatant ignore the will of the people undemocratic loons to name but a few.

Perhaps you could provide a sensible response this time or maybe just admit a no deal outcome is possible

Ok, I'll play along until the next kick off.

Parliament votes down the final deal expecting the government to renegotiate despite not having any idea what all the different Remain factions would agree on. The EU unsuprisingly says bog off/ take it or leave it and we hit the buffers.

When we 'hit the buffers' and leave the EU with nothing in place, no border in Ireland, No customs at any ports or airports and no systems in place. How do you think we will manage to implement the WTO rules ? (I assume that you realise we would have to implement all WTO rules and tariffs at all of these non-existent borders ?) What do you think will happen to the goods and people that are due to come into and out of the country the next morning ?

What would actually happen is that the EU will offer us extended terms on a far worse deal, just like they have planned since the day after the referendum. Us committing economic suicide is not in their best interests.

I can't believe that I'm still having to spell this out to people who obviously must have some cognitive ability as they manage to remember how to turn a computer on

And meanwhile - Tick tock

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Exactly what the Tories stand for. Leave is to benefit the rich, nothing more than that.

Clueless. Most Tory MP's voted Remain, the official Tory Government policy was to Remain, Dave and Gideon wanted you to vote Remain, Goldmann Sachs wanted you to vote remain, most big businesses wanted you to vote remain. The establishment both in the UK and abroad didn't want the plebs rocking the gravy boat and wanted you to vote Remain. Plus many comfortable I'm all right jack Remainers towed the corporate line and voted for self-interest. Now some of them even have the gall to chastise and patronise the less fortunate for not voting for the status quo.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Clueless. Most Tory MP's voted Remain, the official Tory Government policy was to Remain, Dave and Gideon wanted you to vote Remain, Goldmann Sachs wanted you to vote remain, most big businesses wanted you to vote remain. The establishment both in the UK and abroad didn't want the plebs rocking the gravy boat and wanted you to vote Remain. Plus many comfortable I'm all right jack Remainers towed the corporate line and voted for self-interest. Now some of them even have the gall to chastise and patronise the less fortunate for not voting for the status quo.

So have the self-interested 'toffs' (Remain) v. the (Leaver) 'plebs' who were out to rock the gravy boat. I actually think there's something in this narrative. But what other than rocking the gravy boat, quite what do you think motivated the plebs and how do you think the eventual outturn will benefit them? The ordinary geezer 'David' v. the corporate 'Goliath' is an 'interesting' framing device, although I don't think we should write-off the mediating influence of the rather posh fellows egging on the plebs.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Ok, I'll play along until the next kick off.



When we 'hit the buffers' and leave the EU with nothing in place, no border in Ireland, No customs at any ports or airports and no systems in place. How do you think we will manage to implement the WTO rules ? What do you think will happen to the goods and people that are due to come into and out of the country the next morning ?

What would actually happen is that the EU will offer us extended terms on a far worse deal, just like they have planned since the day after the referendum. Us committing economic suicide is not in their best interests.

I can't believe that I'm still having to spell this out to people who obviously must have some cognitive ability as they manage to remember how to turn a computer on

Once again you seem to be assuming because the UK or the EU wouldn't be ready it couldn't possibly happen. Hypothetically speaking I would expect Emergency measures continuing the current arrangments with a transition period until both sides can adjust to the new reality.

At least you now seem open to the possibility though, however unlikely ... progress!

 

[WATFORD zero]

Once again you seem to be assuming because the UK or the EU wouldn't be ready it couldn't possibly happen. Hypothetically speaking I would expect Emergency measures continuing the current arrangments with a transition period until both sides can adjust to the new reality.

At least you now seem open to the possibility though, however unlikely ... progress!

So you agree that the offer of extended membership on worse terms would be the outcome.

At last you've realised the reality is that the only thing we can be sure of is extended membership on worse terms as there are no other options open to us in the 9 months remaining. (But don't worry, they'll call it Transition or Implementation or Alignment or Red/White and Blue re-branding or something to keep the naive happy).

Clusterf*** really doesn't sum it up, does it ?

Progress ?

Anyway, enjoy the football

 

[JC Footy Genius]

So have the self-interested 'toffs' (Remain) v. the (Leaver) 'plebs' who were out to rock the gravy boat. I actually think there's something in this narrative. But what other than rocking the gravy boat, quite what do you think motivated the plebs and how do you think the eventual outturn will benefit them? The ordinary geezer 'David' v. the corporate 'Goliath' is an 'interesting' framing device, although I don't think we should write-off the mediating influence of the rather posh fellows egging on the plebs.

Sections of the leave vote have been frustrated at being left behind economically and/or continually ignored on specific issues like immigration. Giving the political and wider establishment a kick in the goolies was to good an opportunity to miss. The eventual outrun is unknown but voting for the same old is a known .. the people near and at the bottom stay put and mass immigration continues.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

So you agree that the offer of extended membership on worse terms would be the outcome.

At last you've realised the reality is that the only thing we can be sure is going to come out of this current clusterf*** is further extended membership on worse terms.

Progress ?

No deal means not agreeing the tens of billions of payments to the EU the short term exit transition to WTO might have some financial element though.

I'm not arguing it's the best solution just that's it possible.

 

[Berty23]

Interesting to hear Farage say that [since it became clear his unicorns and fairies Brexit was impossible and the government tried to do something] that we are going to be in a worse position that if we had stayed. Smashing.

 

[Berty23]

No deal means not agreeing the tens of billions of payments to the EU the short term exit transition to WTO might have some financial element though.

I'm not arguing it's the best solution just that's it possible.

Do you really think that is what no deal means? We rely on at least 50 EU agencies and our country's legal and physical infrastructure is constructed on being in the EU. Do you think that no deal and walk away is actually an option?

 

[WATFORD zero]

No deal means not agreeing the tens of billions of payments to the EU the short term exit transition to WTO might have some financial element though.

I'm not arguing it's the best solution just that's it possible.

Get the WTO tariffs, our import/export figures and your calculator out and you'll see the figures are truly eye-watering.

Makes a few tens of billions look like chicken-feed.

(I know you're not advocating no deal)

 

[nicko31]

Interesting to hear Farage say that [since it became clear his unicorns and fairies Brexit was impossible and the government tried to do something] that we are going to be in a worse position that if we had stayed. Smashing.

So predictable. Make stupid demands from the EU, they say go whistle and then demonise them in an attempt to drive up public support for the dumb Brexit.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Sections of the leave vote have been frustrated at being left behind economically and/or continually ignored on specific issues like immigration. Giving the political and wider establishment a kick in the goolies was to good an opportunity to miss. The eventual outrun is unknown but voting for the same old is a known .. the people near and at the bottom stay put and mass immigration continues.

Most definitely. I know one thing, democracy will be well and truly broken if we don't leave the EU fully. There will be a lot of angry people out there. As if the general public need any more reasons not to trust politicians, this will be the icing on the cake.

I'm disgusted with the Remainer politicians, ex politicians, millionaires, billionaires who have tried and are still trying to disrupt this process. I'm pissed off with the constant negativity, doom and gloom forecasts. This country needs something new, Brexit would offer that.

How do we move on, if we don't actually leave at the end of all this, I don't know. I know one thing those who voted Leave would have been well and truly screwed.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Do you really think that is what no deal means? We rely on at least 50 EU agencies and our country's legal and physical infrastructure is constructed on being in the EU. Do you think that no deal and walk away is actually an option?

No, obviously there are numerous ramifications. We rely on many EU agencies because we are currently members of the EU. No deal and walk away ... in some circumstances yes. I take it you would never walk away under any circumstances see wave white flag and bend over.

 

[The Clamp]

Most definitely. I know one thing, democracy will be well and truly broken if we don't leave the EU fully. There will be a lot of angry people out there. As if the general public need any more reasons not to trust politicians, this will be the icing on the cake.

I'm disgusted with the Remainer politicians, ex politicians, millionaires, billionaires who have stuck to their principles and fought for the UK and what they know to be right for the UK and it's citizens. I'm pissed off with the constant realism. This country needs something new, Brexit can not offer that.

How do we move on, if we don't actually leave at the end of all this, I don't know. Those who voted Leave have been well and truly screwed.

Not a bad post on the whole but I've put some of it right for you, making it by far your most coherent and well thought out post to date.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Get the WTO tariffs, our import/export figures and your calculator out and you'll see the figures are truly eye-watering.

Makes a few tens of billions look like chicken-feed.

(I know you're not advocating no deal)

Yes big numbers everywhere including EU imposed tariffs on rest of the world products. Many people often forget the customs union is a protectionist wall inflating prices.

(correct)

 

[Berty23]

No, obviously there are numerous ramifications. We rely on many EU agencies because we are currently members of the EU. No deal and walk away ... in some circumstances yes. I take it you would never walk away under any circumstances see wave white flag and bend over.

If I am buying a car and we don't strike a deal then I walk away and retain the status quo. This is not like that is it? Walking away is leaving everything and we don't have the infrastructure in place to do it. The problem is that people believed that no deal is better than a bad deal. Well no deal = status quo is, no deal and be unable to function is not. This is why no deal was never a viable option which is why the EU hold the Stronger negotiating hand.

If you were stranded in the middle of the desert and you needed water or you died and someone offered you a bottle for 5,000 quid then that is very expensive and arguably a bad deal but if it kept you alive then it is undoubtedly better than no deal. We are in a similar situation. Here and all the negotiators know this.