[Politics] Brexit

[WATFORD zero]

Interesting moves...how far will this have to go before people in power think again.

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1003965956295708672

Unfortunately, I think that if you're up shit creek and you've thrown away the paddle, finding out the paddle has gradually been increasing in size, while interesting, is not really a great help

 

[beorhthelm]

It's clear you don't know how the Lords work. They can send bills back to the HoC for amendments, which reins in the worst excesses of any government. It is democracy in action. It prevents fanatics.

Theresa May is so concerned with holding onto power, for good or bad, she has made up a list of Tories to made life peers to try and flood the Lords with people on 'her side'.

im well aware of the role of the Lord as a revision chamber, i just find it odd the suggestion that the Commons rejecting or voting against Lords amendments is some how not democratic. you cant seriously say the Lords is have been flooded with Tory peers when they are minority of about a third and many will ignore the whip. its down to the Commons to ultimately pass legislation, if they vote for these amendments its no less democratic than any other law we have.

 

[Baldseagull]

im well aware of the role of the Lord as a revision chamber, i just find it odd the suggestion that the Commons rejecting or voting against Lords amendments is some how not democratic. you cant seriously say the Lords is have been flooded with Tory peers when they are minority of about a third and many will ignore the whip. its down to the Commons to ultimately pass legislation, if they vote for these amendments its no less democratic than any other law we have.

When it requires a Billion quid of extra spending in Northern Ireland to buy the votes of 10 somewhat extremist politicians, it is a bit of an unfunny joke of a democracy.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

im well aware of the role of the Lord as a revision chamber, i just find it odd the suggestion that the Commons rejecting or voting against Lords amendments is some how not democratic. you cant seriously say the Lords is have been flooded with Tory peers when they are minority of about a third and many will ignore the whip. its down to the Commons to ultimately pass legislation, if they vote for these amendments its no less democratic than any other law we have.

Forgive me interrupting - I mainly just browse this thread at the moment - but my impression was that Thunder Bolt was criticising the Government's contempt for the Lords' constitional role by 'debating' all of their amendments in a single Commons session. That, surely, was his point (and Caroline Lucas's too) and I have to say it was a good one.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Forgive me interrupting - I mainly just browse this thread at the moment - but my impression was that Thunder Bolt was criticising the Government's contempt for the Lords' constitional role by 'debating' all of their amendments in a single Commons session. That, surely, was his point (and Caroline Lucas's too) and I have to say it was a good one.

'Her' point

 

[bha100]

European union referendum act 2015

It's a genuine question im asking regarding the European union referendum act 2015.

Chuka umunna was on tv the other day and like most that share his view he was saying that he believes a vote should be held on the final deal, and we all know the arguments as to why etc etc.

It got me thinking, so i did some research, back in 2015 mp's voted to pass the European Union Referendum Act, 544 to 53, mp's including Peter Kyle,Caroline Lucas and Chuka umunna voted in favour knowing the question on the ballot paper was going to be in or out.

Why did they not then address the arguments at the time, they must of had the same concerns then as they do now, they could of put forward reasons for not holding an in or out referendum and voted against allowing it.

My best guess is they were towing the party line or were they allowed a free vote?

 

[Notters]

It's a genuine question im asking regarding the European union referendum act 2015.

Chuka umunna was on tv the other day and like most that share his view he was saying that he believes a vote should be held on the final deal, and we all know the arguments as to why etc etc.

It got me thinking, so i did some research, back in 2015 mp's voted to pass the European Union Referendum Act, 544 to 53, mp's including Peter Kyle,Caroline Lucas and Chuka umunna voted in favour knowing the question on the ballot paper was going to be in or out.

Why did they not then address the arguments at the time, they must of had the same concerns then as they do now, they could of put forward reasons for not holding an in or out referendum and voted against allowing it.

My best guess is they were towing the party line or were they allowed a free vote?

I'm guessing this will sadly get swallowed up into the main thread soon. It's a difficult one. The referendum was about in and out, but only the in was clear. No-one knew (or still knows) what out looks like, which is why I think a second referendum is essential. However, I guess they couldn't have legislated for a second before the first.

 

[bha100]

I'm guessing this will sadly get swallowed up into the main thread soon. It's a difficult one. The referendum was about in and out, but only the in was clear. No-one knew (or still knows) what out looks like, which is why I think a second referendum is essential. However, I guess they couldn't have legislated for a second before the first.

But i still don't understand then if they were not sure about both outcomes then surely don't vote in favour of a referendum until you can be reasonably sure how both outcomes would look

 

[nicko31]

Most comeback. I know a few who left for AUS but they gradually returned. They left b4 Brexit though

I think with Brexit the days of the "ping-pong-pom" will be no longer

 

[Baldseagull]

But i still don't understand then if they were not sure about both outcomes then surely don't vote in favour of a referendum until you can be reasonably sure how both outcomes would look

EDIT. I posted without reading carefully.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Interesting moves...how far will this have to go before people in power think again.

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1003965956295708672

I suppose it depends if the people in power choose to prioritise one or even a few poll ratings above a referendum and a general election democratic mandate. Obviously only an undemocratic loon would see that as acceptable so probably many in the HoL and the Remainiac crew Soubry, Chukka etc would concur.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questio...he-european-union-asked-after-the-referendum/

 

[Notters]

But i still don't understand then if they were not sure about both outcomes then surely don't vote in favour of a referendum until you can be reasonably sure how both outcomes would look

I don't think that's in the slightest bit possible.

 

[astralavi]

Humour helps
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/polit...s-with-brexit-discovered-today-20180605173869

 

[beorhthelm]

It's a genuine question im asking regarding the European union referendum act 2015.

Chuka umunna was on tv the other day and like most that share his view he was saying that he believes a vote should be held on the final deal, and we all know the arguments as to why etc etc.

It got me thinking, so i did some research, back in 2015 mp's voted to pass the European Union Referendum Act, 544 to 53, mp's including Peter Kyle,Caroline Lucas and Chuka umunna voted in favour knowing the question on the ballot paper was going to be in or out.

Why did they not then address the arguments at the time, they must of had the same concerns then as they do now, they could of put forward reasons for not holding an in or out referendum and voted against allowing it.

My best guess is they were towing the party line or were they allowed a free vote?

they all voted for the referendum because they all assumed the Remain camp would win it, so never have to address how or what to do if Leave won. and here we are, a great triumph of democracy (how often do we have a direct vote on an issue) and everything is thrown to wind because no one has a clue what to do next. leavers cant organise or provide solutions, remainers want to twist every knife in a hope of abandonment. which is ultimately where this will go and we'll have a decade or so of recrimination of how unfair and undemocratic it all is, and look forward to arguing the toss with EU over every regulation and directive, with them know full well we'll accept and implement everything as we did for 40 years. ho hum.

 

[WATFORD zero]

they all voted for the referendum because they all assumed the Remain camp would win it, so never have to address how or what to do if Leave won. and here we are, a great triumph of democracy (how often do we have a direct vote on an issue) and everything is thrown to wind because no one has a clue what to do next. leavers cant organise or provide solutions, remainers want to twist every knife in a hope of abandonment. which is ultimately where this will go and we'll have a decade or so of recrimination of how unfair and undemocratic it all is, and look forward to arguing the toss with EU over every regulation and directive, with them know full well we'll accept and implement everything as we did for 40 years. ho hum.

Can you not stop this continuous whining on FFS.

This thread has turned into constant moaning from certain posters lately.

Be Happy, you got what you voted for

 

[JC Footy Genius]

The achievements of Brexiteers in parliament. Theresa May has just surrounded herself with Yes men.

https://twitter.com/Bakehouse2016/status/1003703478190006272

[tweet]1003703478190006272[/tweet]

Ah, yet another twitter link I can see why you're so well informed.

The PM was a Remainer the Chancellor ditto, the previous Home Sec was a Remainer the new Home Sec voted Remain ... the Leader of the Opposition voted Remain (despite his lifelong 'principled' opposition to the EU) the vast majority of the cabinet voted Remain. Expecting remainers to manage something they don't believe in ... what could possibly go wrong.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The graph shows that in the last 12 months the "Leavers" have flatlined, which would suggest the increase in "Remain" is due to the "Don't Knows" finally realising what they should have worked out in June 2016 - that Brexit will be a disaster for this country.

Quite a few Leavers have changed their minds now they've seen the mess this government is making of it.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Ah, yet another twitter link I can see why you're so well informed.

The PM was a Remainer the Chancellor ditto, the previous Home Sec was a Remainer the new Home Sec voted Remain ... the Leader of the Opposition voted Remain (despite his lifelong 'principled' opposition to the EU) the vast majority of the cabinet voted Remain. Expecting remainers to manage something they don't believe in ... what could possibly go wrong.

It is such a shame that your A team ran away in the days after the vote leaving all those remainers to have to implement it.

What I would have given to have seen Boris's face when he was told that he had ended up on the winning side

 

[JC Footy Genius]

It is such a shame that your A team ran away in the days after the vote leaving all those remainers to implement it

Fact check - Remainer Cameron did a runner ... many Brexiteers stood for the leadership.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Quite a few Leavers have changed their minds now they've seen the mess this government is making of it.

Up to a point but it looks like the 'hard core' Leaver support in the electorate is around 40%. It would take economic paralysis the like of which we've not seen in our lifetime to get that figure going down.