[Politics] Brexit

[Berty23]

I'm blaming the system. Governments should have planned years ago for all the extra people we have, instead of creating a feeling and situation where British people can't say a damn thing anymore. Too many people and not enough to go around.

Like what? What isn't there enough of. Which groups can't we say anything about? I assume a group completely irrelevant to Brexit?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Like what? What isn't there enough of.

Housing and GPs to start with.

 

[pastafarian]

Not surprised in the slightest to read that its the lunatic fringe element of remainers on here who are aghast at the very notion that some people identify their nationality as British not European. Oh the horror of it all.
They must be livid there is sod all they can do about that as well.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Anyway, I've always held our multi millionaire, very popular, hard working, 'one of the people', constituency MP Amber Rudd in the highest of regard and there was an interesting development involving her and Brexit reported on Newsnight last night - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44175169

 

[pastafarian]

If we didn't need immigrants then wouldn't the number from countries we can control very easily be falling?

Immigration is needed and wanted, mass unsustainable immigration is not.
Learn to differentiate between the two.

 

[Berty23]

Housing and GPs to start with.

Is that down to immigrants? Without immigrants we would not have enough GPs. Much of the pressure on surgeries is down to people going who don't need to and young immigrant families are far less likely to use them than they contribute.

Housing - this is shocking and endless schemes to keep house prices high are to blame. That and house builders sitting on large land banks to make cash. Do you think getting rid of immigrants who build the houses will help?

 

[WATFORD zero]

So, just as Brexit starts falling apart over trade and parliamentary sovereignty, it seems to me that the real reasons most people voted the way they did are starting to become clear.

Because I've always believed what I've constantly been told over the last 2 years that the vote was all about parliamentary sovereignty and trade deals.

But being the eternal optimist, I'd like to think that the NSC leavers aren't representative, and the rest of the leavers nationally voted for sovereignty and trade reasons

 

[portslade seagull]

Is that down to immigrants? Without immigrants we would not have enough GPs. Much of the pressure on surgeries is down to people going who don't need to and young immigrant families are far less likely to use them than they contribute.

Housing - this is shocking and endless schemes to keep house prices high are to blame. That and house builders sitting on large land banks to make cash. Do you think getting rid of immigrants who build the houses will help?

Have you been an ostrich for long. Burying your head in the sand won't help. So you are saying that an extra 300k influx a year doesn't put any strain on the NHS apparently because immigrants won't use it and housing just wouldn't keep up. Depends how much green belt you want to lose.

 

[portslade seagull]

So, just as Brexit starts falling apart, it seems to me that the real reasons most people voted the way they did are starting to become clear.

Because I've always believed what I've constantly been told over the last 2 years that the vote was all about parliamentary sovereignty and trade deals

No I wanted to leave that corrupt money grabbing entity otherwise known as The Daylight Robbery Branch EU

 

[WATFORD zero]

No I wanted to leave that corrupt money grabbing entity otherwise known as The Daylight Robbery Branch EU

All of the leavers in the last 2 pages have insisted for the last 2 years that there were other reasons, but the moment immigration comes up, all of you are all over it, like tramps on chips.

 

[pastafarian]

So, just as Brexit starts falling apart, it seems to me that the real reasons most people voted the way they did are starting to become clear.

Because I've always believed what I've constantly been told over the last 2 years that the vote was all about parliamentary sovereignty and trade deals

Dont lie, you have constantly been told that immigration and border control was a large/huge contributing factor as well, to some people it is the overriding issue with the most urgency. There is of course nothing wrong with this as there is nothing wrong with wanting your borders controlled and immigration to be sustainable. Those that scream racist or xenophobe as opposition to this thinking are just those who want the immigration and border control issue to not be discussed. They are really not worth listening to.

 

[portslade seagull]

All of the leavers in the last 2 pages have insisted for the last 2 years that there were other reasons, but the moment immigration comes up, all of you are all over it.

So do you really believe that immigration levels of over 300k a year for 10yrs have not in the slightest had any affect on the NHS, Schools, Housing. Immigration works for the skills required when shortages exist but it goes wrong when the doors are just flung open. Ask Mrs Merkel

 

[Westdene Seagull]

All of the leavers in the last 2 pages have insisted for the last 2 years that there were other reasons, but the moment immigration comes up, all of you are all over it, like tramps on chips.

Rubbish ... care to quote where I've suggested immigration was the reason for me voting leave ? You're making things up now .... don't fall into Nibble's ways.

 

[Berty23]

Have you been an ostrich for long. Burying your head in the sand won't help. So you are saying that an extra 300k influx a year doesn't put any strain on the NHS apparently because immigrants won't use it and housing just wouldn't keep up. Depends how much green belt you want to lose.

Over a quarter of doctors are either Other EU or from outside the EU. Immigrants make up about 5% of the population. Think about that.

Re green belt. I live in Warwick And when I travel from here to London it is virtually all fields until inside m25. Massive myth that there is nowhere to build.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Rubbish ... care to quote where I've suggested immigration was the reason for me voting leave ? You're making things up now .... don't fall into Nibble's ways.

To be fair, you are one of the few on here who has put forward the reasons behind their vote consistently and they haven't been based around immigration. (Atlhough you jumped in with GPs and Housing on the page before last in a discussion on immigration - but we both know there are severe shortages there which are nothing to do with immigration).

Funnily enough, I wouldn't have minded some sort of EU immigration controls, but all the time we were electing Nigel and his mob, to not turn up at the EU parliament and to not vote, we were were never going to get any changes.

Further, if immigration is such an issue, why haven't we put any limits on non-EU immigration ? I think we both know looking at Britain's population we are completely dependant on immigration of young workers to support our tax and pension systems and also if we are going to achieve any economic growth.

But, I have still seen a move towards the immigration issue as Brexit has come under threat although, I accept, not from you.

Interesting discussion, but it has no effect as we will get what we get and that will be what Brexit voters voted for - whatever it is

 

[WATFORD zero]

Over a quarter of doctors are either Other EU or from outside the EU. Immigrants make up about 5% of the population. Think about that.

More chance of Murray doing a sub 10 second 100 meters

 

[JC Footy Genius]

That there is a degree of mutual-exclusivity between the two is based on the fact that if the UK is allowed to save financial and other obligations by walking away from the European Union while at the same time retaining many of the advantages of membership, including easy access to the single market, then the future of the Union, including most certainly the current arrangements regarding free movement of goods, will be severely compromised. I assume that that was the thinking behind the comments.

You're certainly right about the relative importance of the Canadian market.

Yes I know we have to be seen to be losing out in some areas so others aren't tempted to jump ship. But that still leaves plenty of scope for a wide ranging trade deal on a scale far greater than CETA.

 

[portslade seagull]

All of the leavers in the last 2 pages have insisted for the last 2 years that there were other reasons, but the moment immigration comes up, all of you are all over it, like tramps on chips.

Ughh I feel queasy now

 

[portslade seagull]

Over a quarter of doctors are either Other EU or from outside the EU. Immigrants make up about 5% of the population. Think about that.

Re green belt. I live in Warwick And when I travel from here to London it is virtually all fields until inside m25. Massive myth that there is nowhere to build.

5% seems a tad low. I would like you to tackle the nimbys over building on green belt. Anyway you veered off What you were stating. There was no mention on your high horse about the actual skiiled workers of which I have no issue with much to your annoyance. It's the economic unskilled migrants who have to be housed. I'd rather a NHS worker or ex armed forces are assisted before these

 

[JC Footy Genius]

But it's not a difficult and complicated negotiation is it. It was completely predictable from June 2016 and it's gone (and going) exactly the way you, me and [MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION] knew (and, I'm guessing, you two feared) it would. (When he gives up trying to prove he's intellectually superior to other posters).

No matter how many posts we make on here, we all know what's really going to happen.

Leave, remain or whatever, Ppf and two profs will always struggle to sit the right way on a toilet seat and will consequently suffer the outcome but what can you do

It is predictably difficult and complicated. Extracting ourselves from the EU and 45 years of integration was never going to be straightforward or easy. As I said a few weeks after the vote we would probably end up with a deal where some on the leave side would end up unhappy claiming betrayal and some on the remain side unhappy claiming we are forever doomed. I am not fearful, that would only occur if I really thought those who are trying to ignore democracy/will of the people were going to succeed.

I still wouldn't claim to know what will happen though. Lots of twists and turns to come most of them being deliberately misinterpreted to suit arguments