[Politics] Brexit

[nicko31]

Another defeat down at the House of Lords tonight for the government, 19 Tory rebels this time.

Keir Starmer called the vote “a hugely significant moment in the fight to ensure parliament has a proper role in the Brexit negotiations and that we avoid a no-deal situation”.

I said many months ago, no Brexit is more likely than a no deal Brexit, after its even more the case

Democracy is at least doing its job to save us from the worse of the Brexdreamists desires....

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Another defeat down at the House of Lords tonight for the government, 19 Tory rebels this time.

Keir Starmer called the vote “a hugely significant moment in the fight to ensure parliament has a proper role in the Brexit negotiations and that we avoid a no-deal situation”.

I said many months ago, no Brexit is more likely than a no deal Brexit, after its even more the case

Democracy is at least doing its job to save us from the worse of the Brexdreamists desires....

Quite honestly it's a fing disgrace what's going on here. What are you going to say to the 17M+ people who voted to Leave, if we don't actually Leave at the end of this all.

 

[vegster]

Quite honestly it's a fing disgrace what's going on here. What are you going to say to the 17M+ people who voted to Leave, if we don't actually Leave at the end of this all.

Sorry, the country can't be allowed to commit economic suicide.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

we're leaving, no single market , no freedom of movement , unelected house of lords can grizzle all they want ,bye bye EU
regards
DR

 

[Deleted member 22389]

we're leaving, no single market , no freedom of movement , unelected house of lords can grizzle all they want ,bye bye EU
regards
DR

I do hope so.

 

[nicko31]

Quite honestly it's a fing disgrace what's going on here. What are you going to say to the 17M+ people who voted to Leave, if we don't actually Leave at the end of this all.

I think we will still leave but there have to be fail safes, the Tory right cannot be trusted.

If May had her way she would be running an elected dictatorship under her minority government

This is not 1933 Germany

 

[Pinkie Brown]

Well after 2 years of waiting to find out what it was we voted for, maybe we won't have to wait too much longer.

I guess in a few weeks we'll know whether the phase 1 agreement was a 'fudge to move to the next phase' and a 'technology' solution has been found for Ireland/NI.

A few more weeks and we'll also know whether we are in 'a customs union', how and if we are going to introduce immigration controls, what EU legislation and directives we will abide by and what EU bodies we are going to stay in.

But even if we stay in a customs union, don't introduce immigration controls and are subservient to all EU legislation and directives, Ppf will be right and we'll be leaving the EU, so that's the main thing

As of last week, DExEU had consulted not one single company on a potential 'technical' solution to the RoI/NI. So nope. The reason they haven't bothered is because there isn't one. Davis & Co know this and are floundering all over the place. The only solution is throwing the DUP under the bus and agreeing a border at sea or a United Ireland. That's not going to happen.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Quite honestly it's a fing disgrace what's going on here. What are you going to say to the 17M+ people who voted to Leave, if we don't actually Leave at the end of this all.

We still seem on course to leave so perhaps your concern is premature. But a question in the meantime. Do you feel that the decision on where our country's final post-EU destination will be - from a Norwegian virtual-remain to a Minford-style free-for-all - should be made by a group inside Downing Street, or influenced and guided by the ancient traditions of the British democracy's parliamentary institutions and judicial systems?

 

[Peter Grummit]

"Nothing agreed" is the Doomsday scenario.

Lemmings Day - all off the cliff together.

Except those with parachutes - riches placed overseas - like Rees-Mogg. Remember, he's already threatened to quit the country. When it all goes tits-up, he and a significant number of hard-Brexiteer MPs have this fallback.

I am an economist with 30+ years professional experience. My fear was always that no overseas firm would ever invest in the UK if it then didn't have access to the single market. Figures released by the OECD last Friday show inward investment into Britain slumped by $181bn over the last year; outward investment has boomed by $120bn. This is one of the biggest one-year turnarounds by any country ever recorded.

 

[Blue3]

this weeks highlights:

DUP say the EU doesn't understand their view, to be fair no one does !

House of Lords vote for Parliament to have a final say, so let me get this straight an unelected House of Lords has voted against the wishes of a minority government that is propped up by the DUP that no one understands !

Liam Fox complaining that the unelected has voted against the Unelected is no one in England Scotland or Wales voted DUP but we all funded the £1 billion this unelected body !

Liam Fox is saying the House of Lords is acting against the democratic will of the people but surely the democratic will did not include £1 billion to the DUP that no one outside NI voted for that says the EU cannot understand and a tiny group of hardline Brexiteers sitting in a room making decisions that will affect us all this was not the will of the people

Still we have got our blue French printed passports to look forward to

 

[A1X]

Quite honestly it's a fing disgrace what's going on here. What are you going to say to the 17M+ people who voted to Leave, if we don't actually Leave at the end of this all.

What are you going to say to members of the 17m who have since changed their minds? "Tough shit, nobody is allowed to change their minds ever again"?

 

[5ways]

Quite honestly it's a fing disgrace what's going on here. What are you going to say to the 17M+ people who voted to Leave, if we don't actually Leave at the end of this all.

It is only a democratic decision if people can change their minds at a later date. Which people are doing.

 

[melias shoes]

What are you going to say to members of the 17m who have since changed their minds? "Tough shit, nobody is allowed to change their minds ever again"?

No one I know has changed their mind. We had the fing referendum. It was voted leave and now remainers are calling for democracy to change what was a democratic vote. Answer to your question yes it is tough shit if people have changed their minds. They should stand by their decisions . Like I said no one else I know has changed their mind in fact I know people that voted remain that now are glad we are leaving.

 

[melias shoes]

It is only a democratic decision if people can change their minds at a later date. Which people are doing.

Really?

 

[Peter Grummit]

No one I know has changed their mind. We had the fing referendum. It was voted leave and now remainers are calling for democracy to change what was a democratic vote. Answer to your question yes it is tough shit if people have changed their minds. They should stand by their decisions . Like I said no one else I know has changed their mind in fact I know people that voted remain that now are glad we are leaving.

Democracy is about much more than a single referendum vote. The opportunity to change course is a big part of that. Nobody is talking about ignoring the Brexit decision. But nobody on either side knew any detail of what Brexit would entail. Once we know that, it's surely democratic to either allow a free vote in Parliament, or to go back to the country to allow the people to ratify the deal.

If, as you say, no-one has changed their mind then it will all go through. Fair enough.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Westdene Seagull]

What are you going to say to members of the 17m who have since changed their minds? "Tough shit, nobody is allowed to change their minds ever again"?

No, they can wait 40 years and have a vote - just like we leavers had to do.

 

[larus]

It is only a democratic decision if people can change their minds at a later date. Which people are doing.

And what would you suggest would be a democratic solution if we were to have another vote on the outcome of the negotiations and the vote was to decide to stay in, but then, say in 2 years time, opinion polls were showing more people wanted to leave?

Would you support a new referendum? If not, why not, as you are so keen on democracy? Or do you mean you support democracy if you get your way?

 

[larus]

No one I know has changed their mind. We had the fing referendum. It was voted leave and now remainers are calling for democracy to change what was a democratic vote. Answer to your question yes it is tough shit if people have changed their minds. They should stand by their decisions . Like I said no one else I know has changed their mind in fact I know people that voted remain that now are glad we are leaving.

This is so true. I don't know anyone who has changed their mind, but I have read comments on various places and seen people (QT etc.) who have said they voted remain but either accept the result or they need would vote Leave due to the tactics of the EU.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Democracy is about much more than a single referendum vote. The opportunity to change course is a big part of that. Nobody is talking about ignoring the Brexit decision. But nobody on either side knew any detail of what Brexit would entail. Once we know that, it's surely democratic to either allow a free vote in Parliament, or to go back to the country to allow the people to ratify the deal.

If, as you say, no-one has changed their mind then it will all go through. Fair enough.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

The only possible reason for objecting to a ratification vote is if you personally want to 'lock in' the original decision - no matter what the consequences later become.

I understand this, but it is a little (re)musing that hardly anyone actually admits it.

 

[melias shoes]

Democracy is about much more than a single referendum vote. The opportunity to change course is a big part of that. Nobody is talking about ignoring the Brexit decision. But nobody on either side knew any detail of what Brexit would entail. Once we know that, it's surely democratic to either allow a free vote in Parliament, or to go back to the country to allow the people to ratify the deal.

If, as you say, no-one has changed their mind then it will all go through. Fair enough.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

It's called having 2 bites at the cherry. Bit like they did to Ireland when they didn't get their way. Try,try and try again until we get our own way. Do you know how pathetic that sounds.