[Politics] Brexit

[vegster]

Well, having said 'prepare to be unimpressed' in advance of May's speech, I have to say that it is better than I anticipated. There: how about that as a break from the reflexive point-scoring?

1. It avoided the awful 'Brexit means Brexit' rubbish that characterised previous speeches

2. It did embrace some details - I think we are beginning to see the meaning of 'deep and special'

3. It did articulate what 'we' want with specificity on key areas and issues

4. It did show some thinking about solutions

5. It did open up the possibility of give and take

6. It did address the Northern Irish border issue

7. It did acknowledge the fears of the race to the bottom

8. It did make a reasonable stab at saying that there are sensible grounds for the UK arguing that it is a special case i.e. not just another off-the-peg trade partner


The big issues - and of course this will now be picked over by people with brains bigger than mine both within and outwith this thread - seem to me to include

a) will the EU play ball?

b) is there enough here to open up sensible and constructive negotiations?

c) are we as special as we think we are?

d) would leaving both the SEM and the Customs Union make us poor candidates for frictionless trade?

e) if we are to remain as wedded to the EU as this implies (in terms of regulatory standards for good) will this make us a less attractive partner for other trade partners?

f) is this a government that has the credibility and ability to negotiate?

g) just how much does the EU want to be seen to help a leaving member to a soft landing?

h) is there enough time to get this implemented?

and

i) will it bloody work and will it be worth the trouble??

I'm sure this will be the subject of some lively contributions.......... eg 'tick tock'

Will any of us live long enough to see the Sunny Uplands or will we spend our time trying to get back to where we were ?

 

[WATFORD zero]

So she has pointed out the if we follow the same regulatory framework as the EU we could have a friction-less border for trade.

I wonder what her views are on Bears and Woods, The Pope and Catholicism, and Dolly Parton and sleeping on your front

It should all be fine as long as the EU don't ask us to commit to keeping in line with their regulatory framework by putting the phase 1 agreement into law.

 

[dingodan]

Robert Peston just summed up nicely what a lot of you seem to be saying. We will keep things the same or very similar so what was the point in Brexit?

People who voted Brexit didn't vote to massively change trade or our relationship with the EU, they voted so that whatever arrangements we have are decided by us. We can decide that very little changes, most of us who voted Brexit don't have any problem with that. If there is an area we have a problem with, the difference will be that we can go to our elected officials and seek to change it.

Control our boarders doesn't mean end immigration, it means continue immigration on our terms.

Control our money doesn't mean not contributing to mutually beneficial arrangements with the EU, it means doing so on our terms.

Control our laws doesn't mean abandoning all EU regulation which exists now or rejecting all EU regulation in the future, in means aligning or not with those regulations on our terms.

It's always been more about where and how decisions are made, not so much about what those decisions are, because in future we will be able to make new or different decisions if we want, that was the point all along.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Why... so you can cherry pick some extreme and random comments and claim the sky is falling in?

No - I'll leave that for you to do to clutch at straws and post something from Guido Fakes or The Daily Telegraph with a #despitebrexit signature.

As this country is supposedly in negotiations with The EU, perhaps some reaction positive or otherwise, might be indicative to the chances of the content of this speech being a runner this time or perhaps if The ERG group aren't best pleased, trouble on the back benches for May - the normal stuff really.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

no single market , no freedom of movement
regards
DR

 

[5ways]

no single market , no freedom of movement
regards
DR

Handy if you live under a rock.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

handy if you live under a rock.

you'll get used to it
regards
DR

 

[dingodan]

No - I'll leave that for you to do to clutch at straws and post something from Guido Fakes or The Daily Telegraph with a #despitebrexit signature.

As this country is supposedly in negotiations with The EU, perhaps some reaction positive or otherwise, might be indicative to the chances of the content of this speech being a runner this time or perhaps if The ERG group aren't best pleased, trouble on the back benches for May - the normal stuff really.

It sounds like you're just waiting for someone else to tell you what to think to be honest.

 

[Titanic]

No - I'll leave that for you to do to clutch at straws and post something from Guido Fakes or The Daily Telegraph with a #despitebrexit signature.

As this country is supposedly in negotiations with The EU, perhaps some reaction positive or otherwise, might be indicative to the chances of the content of this speech being a runner this time or perhaps if The ERG group aren't best pleased, trouble on the back benches for May - the normal stuff really.

I tend to have a positive and optimistic output on politics and life in general.

I find endless bickering and miserablism tiresome... and try to avoid it.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I tend to have a positive and optimistic output on politics and life in general.

That's good to know, thanks.

 

[ManOfSussex]

It sounds like you're just waiting for someone else to tell you what to think to be honest.

Basically I think the speech sounded same shit, different day.

As the proof is in the pudding, I'll await the reaction of more important opinions than mine or yours, which if you haven't picked up on I'm not interested in, at Westminster or in Brussels with interest, as ultimately that's whats going to count if any of that is a runner.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Robert Peston just summed up nicely what a lot of you seem to be saying. We will keep things the same or very similar so what was the point in Brexit?

People who voted Brexit didn't vote to massively change trade or our relationship with the EU, they voted so that whatever arrangements we have are decided by us. We can decide that very little changes, most of us who voted Brexit don't have any problem with that. If there is an area we have a problem with, the difference will be that we can go to our elected officials and seek to change it.

Control our boarders doesn't mean end immigration, it means continue immigration on our terms.

Control our money doesn't mean not contributing to mutually beneficial arrangements with the EU, it means doing so on our terms.

Control our laws doesn't mean abandoning all EU regulation which exists now or rejecting all EU regulation in the future, in means aligning or not with those regulations on our terms.

It's always been more about where and how decisions are made, not so much about what those decisions are, because in future we will be able to make new or different decisions if we want, that was the point all along.

Because, I suspect, the EU will not be happy with a starting point to phase 2 negotiations of 'we're not going to change anything much, so maybe we can carry on with that as a basis'

I think they may just push for the regulatory alignment that was agreed at the end of Phase 1 to be made a little more 'formal'

I bet you're a scream in commercial negotiations

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Because, I suspect, the EU will not be happy with a starting point to phase 2 negotiations of 'we're not going to change anything much, so maybe we can carry on with that as a basis'

I think they may just push for the regulatory alignment that was agreed at the end of Phase 1 to be made a little more 'formal'

I bet you're a scream in commercial negotiations

WHO CARES IF THE EU AREN'T HAPPY............ stand firm !
regards
DR

 

[CHAPPERS]

She didn't say anything new there which, at this stage, is quite unbelievable.

 

[ManOfSussex]

She didn't say anything new there which, at this stage, is quite unbelievable.

Different use of words to before that's all and the 'ECJ jurisdiction' red lines from Mansion House 1, down to 'direct ECJ jurisdiction' now but nothing new at all either I thought. Not surprised though.

 

[dingodan]

Because, I suspect, the EU will not be happy with a starting point to phase 2 negotiations of 'we're not going to change anything much, so maybe we can carry on with that as a basis'

I think they may just push for the regulatory alignment that was agreed at the end of Phase 1 to be made a little more 'formal'

I bet you're a scream in commercial negotiations

The EU must like our current arrangements, that's why they constructed them that way, and that's why they would rather we didn't leave. The only reason they would be opposed to things remaining very similar would be as a form of spite and punishment. I think you underestimate the pragmatism usually required in a negotiation.

When you say, "A little more formal" what you really mean is that we be bound by law to EU regulations. That would be no change to our current situation, it wouldn't be leaving the EU, and to demand that would be to sabotage any negotiations before they have started. I don't deny they might actually try to do that, but it wouldn't get them very far.

 

[nicko31]

I'm afraid the Irish Border is still the elephant in the room

We really are looking for a technology solution that doesn't exist and everyone to just be really bloody honest.

Better speech than I expected, though did get the first real indication from the PM that Britain will be poorer after Brexit

Life is going to be different. In certain ways, our access to each other’s markets will be less than it is now

 

[ManOfSussex]

I'm afraid the Irish Border is still the elephant in the room

We really are looking for a technology solution that doesn't exist and everyone to just be really bloody honest.

Better speech than I expect and the first real indication from the PM that Britain will be poorer.

The 'life will be different' line?

 

[dingodan]

Different use of words to before that's all and the 'ECJ jurisdiction' red lines from Mansion House 1, down to 'direct ECJ jurisdiction' now but nothing new at all either I thought. Not surprised though.

She didn't use the word "direct" once in the entire speech.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Thought it was fair, but still people moan. Ball is in the EU's court now.