[Politics] Brexit

[Lincoln Imp]

You mean get my facts right.Does that rule apply to Mr Project Fear,Cameron also?LET'S SAY it should do.Right?

That's an odd response to a charge that your 'facts' were all over the place. You seem to be saying that because Cameron, in your view, is getting his facts wrong then it is quite all right for you to do the same.

 

[Bakero]

Quite a lot here, but I don't buy the argument on democracy, the EU is patently undemocratic, in fact it has 3 Presidents, we (the people do not elect a single one).

As for the immigrants and the view that they benefit the UK I don't buy it, because it does not make sense.

Yesterday on C4 news they stated that of the 2m employed EU immigrants here 88% would not qualify to come here if non EU visa rules on jobs were applied. This means 88% were earning under 21k.

Given you need to be earning approx. 38k how can this massive cohort of migrants benefit the UK?

At best, the benefit would be that they are prepared to earn such low wages they help generate more profit for the businesses they work for.

That at least makes some sense........more profit for the rich.

Given that the median UK income is around 21k, that's not really surprising.

 

[Chief Wiggum]

The people arriving in the EU, the ones fleeing war and the economic migrants. The majority of these people follow Islam. It stands to reason Islam will grow across the whole EU. Eventually there is possiblity these people will settle and gain European Citizenship and then have access to the UK because of European Free movement. Amongst these people there will moderate and hard line followers of the religion. This means it is more than likely in this country and across the EU, we will see more women adopting the Burqa as Islam grows, it is not something I support.

The slow but steady Islamification of large swathes of western Europe is an inevitability. Whether you consider this as a negative or a positive is irrelevant. It is happening.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

The slow but steady Islamification of large swathes of western Europe is an inevitability. Whether you consider this as a negative or a positive is irrelevant. It is happening.

Your completely right, it is happening and there is F all we can do about it now. Don't want to go too off track, but all I see is European culture eventually being eroded in the name of political correctness. We are seeing the uprising of Europeans who don't like it, I don't think it is going to end well.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Real Facts at last.

Good to see at least some elements of our press are actually reporting on facts for a change rather than long term economic guesswork/opinions.

 

[Maldini]

Where has anyone stated that the figures suggested about loss of jobs, lower GDP etc are actual fact rather than forecasts?

Good old BJ was bemoaning the figures the other day claiming the Leave campaign only deal with facts and then went on to claim we spend £350m a week on the EU .

'The ONS said the rise in net immigration was driven by a fall in the number of British citizens emigrating abroad, which was down 14,000 to 123,000'


http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/26/net-migration-to-uk-nears-peak-fewer-britons-emigrate


Damn it I was wrong.I guesstimated 100K but it was more.

 

[Chief Wiggum]

Your completely right, it is happening and there is F all we can do about it now. Don't want to go too off track, but all I see is European culture eventually being eroded in the name of political correctness. We are seeing the uprising of Europeans who don't like it, I don't think it is going to end well.

I don't think you're going off track at all. The EU has facilitated it.

 

[Maldini]

Good to see at least some elements of our press are actually reporting on facts for a change rather than long term economic guesswork/opinions.

Yes 'FACTS'.Not guesswork from the IMF,Cameron and all the other organisations in his pocket.FACTS.

Sadly these figures probably won't influence the remain voters.Maybe the undecided but probably not Remain.They prefer to go on economic guesswork.They also are not proud to be British.They don't believe in this country and what we can achieve out of the UK.Us in the Leave camp are 'Little Englanders'because we want to go it alone.So what does that mean for the majority of countries in the world who all operate alone.Is there a union of South American or Asian countries for example.Nope.It's just in Europe where wanting to go it alone is seen as bad and insular.

 

[Maldini]

Your completely right, it is happening and there is F all we can do about it now. Don't want to go too off track, but all I see is European culture eventually being eroded in the name of political correctness. We are seeing the uprising of Europeans who don't like it, I don't think it is going to end well.

Exactly my point.How boring and bland if in 50 years Europe has mashed up so much that our identities/cultures/languages etc are not as defined as they are now.As if we were one large superstate.What a shame.

 

[Maldini]

It wasn't childish, it was facetious.

Nope.Def childish.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Yes 'FACTS'.Not guesswork from the IMF,Cameron and all the other organisations in his pocket.FACTS.

Sadly these figures probably won't influence the remain voters.Maybe the undecided but probably not Remain.They prefer to go on economic guesswork.They also are not proud to be British.They don't believe in this country and what we can achieve out of the UK.Us in the Leave camp are 'Little Englanders'because we want to go it alone.So what does that mean for the majority of countries in the world who all operate alone.Is there a union of South American or Asian countries for example.Nope.It's just in Europe where wanting to go it alone is seen as bad and insular.

Do you think there is a level of net immigration that Remain supporters wouldn't consider beneficial say 400,000 every year or 500,000, 750,000? (Guessing it's only when it personally effects them).

I'm sure many are proud to be British unfortunately voting Remain will increasingly render the term British meaningless as we continually dilute our culture and values losing any unique identity we once had.

 

[Chief Wiggum]

Once the worlds fifth biggest economy becomes independent and breaks free from the financial corpses of the Southern European economies and is trading freely in a global market, Britain will become an economic force to be reckoned with and investment will pour in. That is my positive vision of the future. It saddens me to see so much doubt and negativity surrounding this referendum
campaign.

Somewhere along the line Britain seems to have lost belief in itself. The lack of strong leadership (i.e. A succession of weak prime ministers) has a lot to do with it.

 

[pb21]

Once the worlds fifth biggest economy becomes independent and breaks free from the financial corpses of the Southern European economies

We are not in the Eurozone, we are "free from the financial corpses of the Southern European economies".

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Do you think there is a level of net immigration that Remain supporters wouldn't consider beneficial say 400,000 every year or 500,000, 750,000? (Guessing it's only when it personally effects them).

I'm sure many are proud to be British unfortunately voting Remain will increasingly render the term British meaningless as we continually dilute our culture and values losing any unique identity we once had.

There is perhaps a quiet debate to be had about that, chewing over points such as whether free movement between countries is good in principle and what if anything should be done when there are practical problems arising from specific situations. It would be enjoyable. But here is not the place. The thread has turned more and more into a (largely) Brexit shouting match, with too much name-calling and point-scoring, too many announcements that anyone who disagrees is ashamed of his country, a liar without courage. It's a lovely day, the Downs are shimmering in the sun and I have better things to do. Perhaps some of you could buy your Mails and the Expresses and the Suns and stare at the front pages for a while, further convincing yourselves of your absolute rightness on absolutely everything. Have a great morning.

 

[Chief Wiggum]

...

 

[Chief Wiggum]

We are not in the Eurozone, we are "free from the financial corpses of the Southern European economies".

Correct, but we are directly affected by those countries economic performance by virtue of the fact we are in the EU, including when they require bailing out (Greece)

 

[5ways]

Good to see at least some elements of our press are actually reporting on facts for a change rather than long term economic guesswork/opinions.

What about the quality papers?

 

[East Preston Gull]

At the end of the day, these are facts. You can have a go at the quality of the reporting of the facts and the agendas of the papers but they are facts. Also the sun front page is pretty funny.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

[Steve in Japan]

At the end of the day, these are facts. You can have a go at the quality of the reporting of the facts and the agendas of the papers but they are facts. Also the sun front page is pretty funny.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

The Sun front page is funny, it is also an accurate summary of the Guardians position

 

[5ways]

Once the worlds fifth biggest economy becomes independent and breaks free from the financial corpses of the Southern European economies and is trading freely in a global market, Britain will become an economic force to be reckoned with and investment will pour in. That is my positive vision of the future. It saddens me to see so much doubt and negativity surrounding this referendum
campaign.

Somewhere along the line Britain seems to have lost belief in itself. The lack of strong leadership (i.e. A succession of weak prime ministers) has a lot to do with it.

Your visions seem to contradict actual economists.