[Politics] Brexit

[Two Professors]

Just noticed the pound is now £1.07 to the Euro. How much further will it need to go before the government do something? Serious question.

Don't have to do anything.The Euro is now at 1.2 to the dollar,so if the ECB don't stop QE soon,the Euro will have to devalue because the Germans won't be able to sell any cars.

 

[CHAPPERS]

A Japanese representative from their Embassy was on the Beeb this morning calling for our support and using our influence (security council etc) re the North Korea crisis. Perhaps NSC's Team EU representatives on this thread could give the Embassy a ring and tell them we haven't got any power/influence.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/our-foreign-secretary-is-an-international-joke-7707q0z66

From The Times

Boris Johnson is becoming the Where’s Wally? of international diplomacy. All over the world the geopolitical tectonic plates are shifting yet at this time of huge global significance the foreign secretary is all but invisible on the international stage. On the nuclear threat posed by North Korea, the crisis over Saudi Arabia and Qatar or the clash between the US and China, he is irrelevant. On Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Russia, Venezuela, Turkey and Yemen, he is incoherent. Occasionally he surfaces briefly, like a hostage paraded before the television cameras to prove he is still alive, as he did after a visit to Libya last week, but even then he is ineffective because he has ceded all influence to others.

As the US enters an extraordinary culture war under Donald Trump, Mr Johnson remains morally ambiguous, flip-flopping between dismissing criticisms of the president as a “whinge-o-rama” and claiming he got it “totally wrong” in his response to the recent racial violence in Charlottesville. He made a serious strategic error in aligning himself so quickly with a divisive populist across the Atlantic who no longer even has the support of his own Republican Party.

In this country, Labour has finally joined the argument about the implementation of Brexit, but the foreign secretary is nowhere to be seen in that debate. Having fooled the United Kingdom into voting to leave the European Union, by promising that it would mean an additional £350 million a week for the NHS, he has no realistic idea of what Brexit should entail. He suggests the policy should be to have our cake and eat it and that other EU countries can “go whistle” for UK payments, as if this were some kind of public school game rather than a negotiation on which the future of the nation depends. Again, there is an inability or an unwillingness to think through the long-term consequences of his position ...

I’ve just spent a fortnight in America and was shocked by the number of tech entrepreneurs, hedge fund managers and political strategists I met who asked: “Why has your prime minister appointed a fool as foreign secretary?” According to diplomatic sources, even officials at the Trump White House “don’t want to go anywhere near Boris because they think he’s a joke”. If that seems ironic, one minister says: “It’s worse in Europe. There is not a single foreign minister there who takes him seriously. They think he’s a clown who can never resist a gag.”

Although the foreign secretary’s job is to win friends and influence people, he seems intent on making enemies and alienating allies all over the world. In diplomacy, every word matters. Mr Johnson will sacrifice months of careful negotiation by his officials to get a quick headline. There have been the jibes about falling prosecco sales and comparisons between EU leaders and prisoner of war camp guards. Last month he infuriated the French by revealing Emmanuel Macron’s plans for Libyan peace talks, having been briefed about the initiative on condition that he told no one about it. Senior Conservatives blame “vanity” for his inability to remain on message or keep a secret. “The French think Boris is totally unreliable, the Germans think he’s a liar and the Italians think he’s dangerous,” says one well-travelled Tory MP. “He is undermining our ability to negotiate internationally and degrading our position abroad. The foreign secretary is supposed to enhance Britain’s reputation but all over the world Boris is making matters worse.”

Given one of the best cabinet positions, he’s shrivelled in the glare

The civil servants in the Foreign Office are horrified by their boss’s lack of discipline and have taken to slipping in to see his deputy Sir Alan Duncan, the Europe minister, when they need a decision. At the intelligence agencies, there is a nervousness about giving sensitive material to a politician who treats every public outing like an after-dinner speech. “It’s all about managing Boris, not respecting him,” says one Whitehall source. “He’s got no concentration span so it’s difficult to have a detailed discussion with him. The whole thing is completely ramshackle for someone who is supposed to be so clever. He doesn’t know what he thinks so he flies by the seat of his pants.”

Theresa May is partly to blame. A Remainer, who needed to dip the Brexiteers’ hands in the blood of an EU deal, she appointed Mr Johnson to his post for political reasons rather than because she genuinely thought he was the best person for the job.

Since then, she has taken every opportunity to undermine him, once even comparing him to a dog that would be put down when it had served its purpose. Fearing him as a leadership rival, No 10 does all it can to keep the foreign secretary from appearing in the media or expressing an opinion to prevent him building an independent powerbase.

Mr Johnson has, however, done a far better job of undermining his own reputation than Downing Street ever could. Having been given one of the best positions in the cabinet, he has shrivelled under the spotlight. Jacob Rees-Mogg has overtaken him as the grass roots’ favourite Bertie Wooster caricature and Tom Tugendhat, the new chairman of the Commons foreign affairs select committee, has emerged to have a better grasp of international affairs.

Mr Johnson was never much liked by his parliamentary colleagues but he was respected by them as a politician who had Heineken appeal: an ability to reach the parts others could not. At the Foreign Office, he has lost that touch and with it his leadership chances. Boris has been found out but he has left Britain still searching for a foreign policy role.

Juncker not happy with the Brexit papers. Our position still not clear.

I have read with all necessary attention all the position papers drawn up by the UK government but none of them really give me satisfaction, so there is an enormous amount of questions that need to be resolved.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So it's a bad thing when the UK government promises to support training and innovation for the UK work force, regenerating sites, improve UK supply availability so we are competitive (+ no extra public money) ?

Whatever they did it appears to be working, which is also a good thing ... right?

Good if it's a level playing field and all businesses get the same help. Very unfair, and dangerous, if it's just a select company which gets these benefits. If I was a British car manufacturer I'd be demanded the same.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Don't have to do anything.The Euro is now at 1.2 to the dollar,so if the ECB don't stop QE soon,the Euro will have to devalue because the Germans won't be able to sell any cars.

I hope they don't. I reckon another 7% drop and I can pay off my UK mortgage.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Without wanting to get involved too much, I'd always thought Thatcher just hand-bagged Mitterrand, as any good grocers daughter from Lincolnshire would do, and The French crumbled and just gave us the technical specifications?

My clear recollection is that Mitterand and the French government went beyond the call of duty in its support for the UK, certainly beyond what was expected and certainly beyond what some in France would have liked. The Exocets had been sold to Argentina before the conflict though and without question there was a controversy over a French agency's maintenance and repair activities in 1982. (I recall a similar situation regarding a British company during one of the Iraq conflicts.) Two Professors has implied that the French (and the "Germans, etc") were arming and supporting Argentina during the conflict but when asked for background about this he refuses to reply, saying that I will call him a liar. Disappointing, because I thought he knew more about most military things than I do.

 

[Two Professors]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/our-foreign-secretary-is-an-international-joke-7707q0z66

From The Times



Juncker not happy with the Brexit papers. Our position still not clear.

Coo,that reporter at the Times seems to dislike everybody equally,real journalistic balance:


Junker not happy with the Brexit papers?Must have spilled his wine on them,as usual.Laminate him a fresh set.

 

[Two Professors]

I hope they don't. I reckon another 7% drop and I can pay off my UK mortgage.

Great stuff.Took me till my fifties to pay off mine.Makes an enormous difference to your finances,unless you've got kids.

 

[The Clamp]

I imagine the companies that are announcing new production etc are merely protecting the pound while they still need it. Appearing optimistic also raises your share price. Wait til Brexit hits proper, they'll be out of here like someone lit their arses on fire.

 

[Two Professors]

My clear recollection is that Mitterand and the French government went beyond the call of duty in its support for the UK, certainly beyond what was expected and certainly beyond what some in France would have liked. The Exocets had been sold to Argentina before the conflict though and without question there was a controversy over a French agency's maintenance and repair activities in 1982. (I recall a similar situation regarding a British company during one of the Iraq conflicts.) Two Professors has implied that the French (and the "Germans, etc") were arming and supporting Argentina during the conflict but when asked for background about this he refuses to reply, saying that I will call him a liar. Disappointing, because I thought he knew more about most military things than I do.

I still hesitate to have any contact with you,because of the inevitable abuse.Are you now saying you didn't call me a liar?

 

[studio150]

Great stuff.Took me till my fifties to pay off mine.Makes an enormous difference to your finances,unless you've got kids.

Even though compared to today's mortgage amounts and monthly repayments, paying off a mortgage is a real bonus towards holidays and Albion away games. Although I still have to pay for the ticket and lunch when my son is able to join me on away trips

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Great stuff.Took me till my fifties to pay off mine.Makes an enormous difference to your finances,unless you've got kids.

Which reminds me, the front windows need painting. Might sling a message on here and see if anyone wants the gig.

 

[Titanic]

John McDonnell: "I think people would interpret membership of the Single Market as not respecting that referendum."

https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/902141193844350977/video/1

 

[Baldseagull]

I still hesitate to have any contact with you,because of the inevitable abuse.Are you now saying you didn't call me a liar?

Perhaps then if I interject and ask the same question, you could answer me?
Do you have, or can you point me to, anything that would back up your previous claim that Germany and France aided Argentina with miliatary equipment, intel or anything else other than the French arms company's technical team that resolved an issue with exocet missile launchers, which defied a Presidential order?

 

[Baldseagull]

You believe what you want to.

I will believe you, if you can offer reasonable evidence.

 

[Berty23]

This is interesting re the single market. This is from someone who worked on the vote leave campaign. Note his bold text which says that at no point did the vote leave campaign want to leave the single market. I expect the experts on here know better though. McDonnell is anti EU so of course he will try all he can to make us leave.

http://www.norgroveblog.co.uk/2017/08/there-is-no-real-mandate-to-leave.html?m=1

 

[Two Professors]

Perhaps then if I interject and ask the same question, you could answer me?
Do you have, or can you point me to, anything that would back up your previous claim that Germany and France aided Argentina with miliatary equipment, intel or anything else other than the French arms company's technical team that resolved an issue with exocet missile launchers, which defied a Presidential order?

Why,do you want to call me a liar too?I'm really bored with this silly game,started by one of you idiots fishing for a wind-up about the new carriers,and their relevance.If you choose not to believe what Dassault did or didn't do to a squadron of Peruvian Mirage 5's transferred to the Argentine Air Force,allegedly,is entirely up to you.As I'm sure you and the more intelligent of the groovy gang are aware,most of the information from that era has been heavily redacted,due to the political realities of our entry to the European nightmare.If you,or your chums,are really that interested,may I suggest a holiday in Argentina,as some of their documents from that time are available for perusal given the necessary contribution,allegedly.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

This is interesting re the single market. This is from someone who worked on the vote leave campaign. Note his bold text which says that at no point did the vote leave campaign want to leave the single market. I expect the experts on here know better though. McDonnell is anti EU so of course he will try all he can to make us leave.

http://www.norgroveblog.co.uk/2017/08/there-is-no-real-mandate-to-leave.html?m=1

no one's got to try to hard, we're getting out of the EU and the single market
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

You should try and get on one of the courses.

I'm RUNNING THEM
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

and, as pointed out earlier, all eminently more employable and more capable of contributing to british society than you

something i said
regards
DR

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I still hesitate to have any contact with you,because of the inevitable abuse.Are you now saying you didn't call me a liar?

I said you were lying because you had been lying.

(The subject is trivial enough but here are the facts. You announced that I had said, time and time again, that Turkey didn't have a border with Syria. I responded by saying that you were either hopelessly confused, or intentionally lying, but suggesting you could easily prove me wrong by coming up with just one example of me saying what you claimed. You came back with some hopelessly facile crack about how I must have edited out all my many references to Turkey not having a border with Syria. Clearly therefore, unless you have some sort of disorder, you are lying. Mince about claiming you have been insulted as much as you like. The evidence is there.)