[Politics] Brexit

[ManOfSussex]

Think you'll find more labour supported Brexit or it was very even in numbers. Your be begging for a change if he ever made in into No10. Tax rise/interest rise united will see plenty lose there homes

Think you'll find I already know that. Oh well. Hope so then on housing.

We need some change in this country - Tories can't do it.

 

[pastafarian]

All I have been saying is that he advocated an arrangement akin to that of an EEA member state, as you seem to agree with here. He wants full access to the single market in the way that Norway and Switzerland have, this is definitely possible, but I guarantee you it comes with free movement of labour and submission to the ECJ in certain areas.
This apparently is not Brexit enough for twunts like you though.

Correct,remaining members of the single market will definitely mean keeping free movement and the primacy of The ECJ,that would not be leaving The EU in the slightest, that is why remainers want to remain members of the single market,they are trying to keep us in the EU, its not rocket science.
We voted to control our EU borders and rid ourselves of the ECJ.
People like Hannan want to have their cake and eat it and have a new bespoke deal with full access to the internal market.
But as he rightly pointed out "Repeat after me. Single market membership and single market access are not the same thing"

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

"The Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union tells the Today programme the Brexit process so far has gone "incredibly well". He said the lack of clarity over what the government plan is intentional, calling it "constructive ambiguity".

Constructive ambiguity

I really have heard it all now.

 

[Baldseagull]

Your ability to put your side was lost the minute you resorted to personnel insults. Always the sign of losing an argument and this appears to be apparent with most remainers who post on this thread.

I reserve the right to be insulting to Pastafarian, as he has proven himself to be an utter bellend.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Your ability to put your side was lost the minute you resorted to personnel insults. Always the sign of losing an argument and this appears to be apparent with most remainers who post on this thread.

Just out of vague interest, would you therefore discount the arguments of a poster who calls his interlocutors hypocritical, murdering, lying, blood-stained morons?

 

[pastafarian]

Just out of vague interest, would you therefore discount the arguments of a poster who calls his interlocutors hypocritical, murdering, lying, blood-stained morons?

who was accused of being a murderer?

 

[nicko31]

The Customs Union issue is now the hot topic. The clip below is produced by the 'experts' (oops - dirty word) at the University of Sussex. I think it clarifies some of the technical issues and in effect argues that even if UK somehow stayed in the (or a) customs union that there's still be some rather unfortunate impacts on UK-EU trade. Of course this could be solved by brilliant negotiations but there are some real practical difficulties even if we take the ideologies out of it. It only last few minutes.

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/broadcast/read/41148

The video tells it like it is. Think its fair to say Britain is entering a period of political paralysis while we try and re-invent the wheel

 

[The Rivet]

Maybe. Shouldn't have voted Brexit last year then perhaps, and just voted for more of the same. 'We couldn't carry on as we were'. Time for change then. Corbyn seems very popular and like him or not - hes different.

We need a different PM.

It will never be Commie Corbyn though or even a Labour devotee. At least not to 2022. Your fantasy isn't yours to command, the sane will vote accordingly I would guess.

 

[Baldseagull]

Correct,remaining members of the single market will definitely mean keeping free movement and the primacy of The ECJ,that would not be leaving The EU in the slightest, that is why remainers want to remain members of the single market,they are trying to keep us in the EU, its not rocket science.
We voted to control our EU borders and rid ourselves of the ECJ.
People like Hannan want to have their cake and eat it and have a new bespoke deal with full access to the internal market.
But as he rightly pointed out "Repeat after me. Single market membership and single market access are not the same thing"

Norway and Switzerland are not Single Market members, but have the single market access Hannan wants. Hannan accepts that to some extent there would be EU law involvement, there would be payments to the EU and there would be some form of free movement. He is not expecting to have it all our way.
I think these things are not as you would wish, Hannan advocated a "softer" form of Brexit, and he did so in the campaign. I don't know why you deny it.

If we Join EFTA, as Hannan has advocated at times, we would leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ, but come under the jurisdiction of the EFTA court, guess where the law comes from. Ticks the no ECJ box though.
Just the free movement thing to swallow.

 

[The Rivet]

Norway and Switzerland are not Single Market members, but have the single market access Hannan wants. Hannan accepts that to some extent there would be EU law involvement, there would be payments to the EU and there would be some form of free movement. He is not expecting to have it all our way.
I think these things are not as you would wish, Hannan advocated a "softer" form of Brexit, and he did so in the campaign. I don't know why you deny it.

If we Join EFTA, as Hannan has advocated at times, we would leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ, but come under the jurisdiction of the EFTA court, guess where the law comes from. Ticks the no ECJ box though.
Just the free movement thing to swallow.

Why are you concentrating on one individual? The man is not in the 'power play' His opinion is just that, an opinion, nothing more. You find it convenient to quote Mr Hannan as it fits your political view/hope/agenda whilst cocking a snoop thinking your oh so pointedly clever. Bloody hell you are desperate.

 

[brighton fella]

Something strange has happened at the BBC:



Must be #fakenews

For once a refreshing change to see youngsters thinking for themselves instead of letting some university bod make their minds up for them. hats off to them.

 

[pastafarian]

Norway and Switzerland are not Single Market members, but have the single market access Hannan wants. Hannan accepts that to some extent there would be EU law involvement, there would be payments to the EU and there would be some form of free movement. He is not expecting to have it all our way.
I think these things are not as you would wish, Hannan advocated a "softer" form of Brexit, and he did so in the campaign. I don't know why you deny it.

If we Join EFTA, as Hannan has advocated at times, we would leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ, but come under the jurisdiction of the EFTA court, guess where the law comes from. Ticks the no ECJ box though.
Just the free movement thing to swallow.

Not denying anything, im just pointing out to you time after time there is more to what he says than the instances where you deliberately cherry pick sections of what he says.
He even writes it down as well to make it clear

"We keep being told that the only way to retain full access to the single market after Brexit is to join the European Economic Area (EEA), alongside Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein. But this isn’t true. Most European states and territories, from the Isle of Man via Switzerland to Turkey, have full access to EU markets."

"Is free movement a sine qua non of EEA membership? As a matter of fact, no. There are three EEA states outside the EU. Two of them, Iceland and Norway, accept free movement on terms similar to EU states. The third, Liechtenstein, does not."

"I have little doubt that Britain could get some sort of modified EEA arrangement that provided for some restrictions on free movement. But that should not be our goal."

"We should seek a comprehensive free trade deal with the EU founded, wherever possible, on the mutual recognition of regulatory standards and professional qualifications. But we should retain the freedom to make our own laws.
That freedom is incompatible with EEA membership. We should leave the EU precisely so that we can embrace a global, free-trading, deregulated future. Control over our immigration policy? That’s just an incidental bonus."

https://www.conservativehome.com/th...gle-market-access-are-not-the-same-thing.html

"The Norwegian model is preferable to being an EU member – but we can do even better than that"

"So, to summarise, Norway has a much better deal than the UK, but Switzerland’s is better yet. There is no reason why, after Brexit, we shouldn’t get an even more attractive arrangement."

"To be clear, both Norway and Switzerland are inspiring, beautiful, freedom-loving countries. They’re both in my top ten favourite nations. They are the two wealthiest states in Europe and, according to the United Nations (which measures literacy, longevity, infant mortality and the like) the two happiest places on Earth. Their deal with the EU would be a big improvement on where we are now; but we can realistically expect to do far, far better."

https://www.conservativehome.com/th...er-but-we-could-do-even-better-than-that.html

 

[brighton fella]

Not denying anything, im just pointing out to you time after time there is more to what he says than the instances where you deliberately cherry pick sections of what he says.
He even writes it down as well to make it clear

"We keep being told that the only way to retain full access to the single market after Brexit is to join the European Economic Area (EEA), alongside Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein. But this isn’t true. Most European states and territories, from the Isle of Man via Switzerland to Turkey, have full access to EU markets."

"Is free movement a sine qua non of EEA membership? As a matter of fact, no. There are three EEA states outside the EU. Two of them, Iceland and Norway, accept free movement on terms similar to EU states. The third, Liechtenstein, does not."

"I have little doubt that Britain could get some sort of modified EEA arrangement that provided for some restrictions on free movement. But that should not be our goal."

"We should seek a comprehensive free trade deal with the EU founded, wherever possible, on the mutual recognition of regulatory standards and professional qualifications. But we should retain the freedom to make our own laws.
That freedom is incompatible with EEA membership. We should leave the EU precisely so that we can embrace a global, free-trading, deregulated future. Control over our immigration policy? That’s just an incidental bonus."

https://www.conservativehome.com/th...gle-market-access-are-not-the-same-thing.html

"The Norwegian model is preferable to being an EU member – but we can do even better than that"

"So, to summarise, Norway has a much better deal than the UK, but Switzerland’s is better yet. There is no reason why, after Brexit, we shouldn’t get an even more attractive arrangement."

"To be clear, both Norway and Switzerland are inspiring, beautiful, freedom-loving countries. They’re both in my top ten favourite nations. They are the two wealthiest states in Europe and, according to the United Nations (which measures literacy, longevity, infant mortality and the like) the two happiest places on Earth. Their deal with the EU would be a big improvement on where we are now; but we can realistically expect to do far, far better."

https://www.conservativehome.com/th...er-but-we-could-do-even-better-than-that.html

Sorry to burst your bubble but with so many turncoats hell bent on over ruling brexit can you really see this happening.

 

[pastafarian]

Sorry to burst your bubble but with so many turncoats hell bent on over ruling brexit can you really see this happening.

See Mr Hannans vision coming true you mean?
Absolutely not, he is more cake and eat it than Mr Kipling.
I can see a free trade agreement eventually down the line though......unless Mr Barnier is telling porkies and didnt mean it when he said it

 

[Baldseagull]

For once a refreshing change to see youngsters thinking for themselves instead of letting some university bod make their minds up for them. hats off to them.

I liked the response to "you dont know what you voted for" , one says the numbers that turned out proved they knew (not sure I follow the logic), one says I dont think anyone knows, but it can't be worse than it is now (oh yes it can), one says 17.4 million people were wiling to take a risk, and I think that is incredible" (I actually agree with that comment).

 

[The Rivet]

I liked the response to "you dont know what you voted for" , one says the numbers that turned out proved they knew (not sure I follow the logic), one says I dont think anyone knows, but it can't be worse than it is now (oh yes it can), one says 17.4 million people were wiling to take a risk, and I think that is incredible" (I actually agree with that comment).

Definitely desperate!

 

[Eeyore]

As in even more chaotic. What is the current Labour policy on Brexit?

I doubt they know themselves. Although they would probably have a more capable negotiating team- more capable but still not fully able- than the Tories. I sooner see Keir Starmer leading things. Why not a multi party group ?

I honestly believe this is more about political careers on all sides than anything else. The more I scramble through 'reliable' commentary the more depressing it becomes.

I don't believe it is in the EU's interest to offer an inch unless necessary. There's to much at stake. Utterly depressing times ahead.

 

[brighton fella]

See Mr Hannans vision coming true you mean?
Absolutely not, he is more cake and eat it than Mr Kipling.
I can see a free trade agreement eventually down the line though......unless Mr Barnier is telling porkies and didnt mean it when he said it

I love your optimism, hope i'm proved wrong but too many turncoats for my liking.

 

[brighton fella]

I love your optimism, hope i'm proved wrong but too many turncoats for my liking.

Also i don't believe a word Barnier says either, he's the same as the rest of them in Brussels, lying cheating scum.

 

[nicko31]

I love your optimism, hope i'm proved wrong but too many turncoats for my liking.

Whatever the deal is, it will be inferior to what we currently have.

But that's the price to stop any more of those pesky Latvian brickies coming in