[Politics] Brexit

[Westdene Seagull]

Yes it was an interesting correlation. One reason why I regularly visit this thread is to try and get my head around the stupidity that must have been involved for someone to actually go into a voting booth and vote to become poorer. I get no perspective talking to the expat community here because we're all graduates (a requirement of Japanese immigration) who have experienced what its like living as a foreigner in an inward looking xenophobic island nation. As such we are all staunch remainers to a man. I actually have a little bit more time for the racists than I do for the demonstrably thick or worse, the ones that actually have a few brain cells but have managed to fill those cells up with misinformation and lies.

So in your mind the only people that voted exit were either thick or racist ? Nice.

 

[The Clamp]

So in your mind the only people that voted exit were either thick or racist ? Nice.

I've stated before that I believe the vast majority of people who voted Brexit were either racist, thick or too short sighted to see the implications. I believe the other Brexit backers are people that stand to gain financially or politically from us leaving the EU.
Leave voters were, after all manipulated by folks like Boris and Farage and used as pawns in Cameron's political omni-shambles.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Ha! No, you missed my point. What I wasn't saying was the majority of Leave voters are thick as mince.

I've missed you're point ? Never .....

 

[ManOfSussex]

I believe a deal will be done but I am willing to admit I could be wrong and all the Remainers who told me the EU would be completely unreasonable and intransigent to punish us could be right.

So it'll be The EU's fault, as it always is, hence why we're leaving that rancid/awful/undemocratic/self serving organisation, not ours for making assumptions that on doing so they'll just roll over and do exactly what we're want because we're British, they're not and we stood firm in the siege of Mafeking, so they should jolly well play fair and respect us. I understand

 

[Barnham Seagull]

Brexit is like waking up in the morning going to the bookies and putting all your money and possessions on a bet that at best can only give you back what you have on a win basis and then going home knocking on your neighbours doors telling them they are all a bunch of twats and then expecting to be better off and expecting your neighbours to respect you.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I've stated before that I believe the vast majority of people who voted Brexit were either racist, thick or too short sighted to see the implications. I believe the other Brexit backers are people that stand to gain financially or politically from us leaving the EU.
Leave voters were, after all manipulated by folks like Boris and Farage and used as pawns in Cameron's political omni-shambles.

And what about those of us that wanted to leave well before Boris, Farage and Cameron were ever heard of ? Which convenient box do we fit into ?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

For many years I was involved in Apprentice training for electrical and mechanical engineers the duming down of training and qualifications from the 1980s through to the 2010s was shameful.

Successive governments tried to modernise the curriculum's to better reflect the changing world while at the same time opening up the education providers and awarding bodies to the free market.

The old awarding bodies such as City and Guilds were being replaced by newer more flexible options module based the idea being employers could pick from huge lists subjects to be studied that provided the students with credits towards a recognised qualification and provide employers with skilled craft persons that were tailor made to there requirements.

All good so far but and there is always a but these changes were all taking place a background of other changes:

1. The steady decline in the British manufacturing base.
2. The evolving of Technical colleges and Polytechnics into new universities
3. The need for these new training providers to ensure enough students to maintain income
4. Training providers unable to deliver the vast options the new courses required
5. Training providers opting for courses that provide biggest returns for least investment
6. A national obsession to go to University at any cost when Apprentiships would have been better options
7. A series of government led very lowly paid very poorly delivered 1 year work experiences under the guise of Apprentiships

These changes were not handled very well by governments of all colours, employers were not geeting the qualified staff they needed, colleges stopped providing these courses, Awarding bodies came and went while others continually remodelled themselves.

We have endured a period of 30 years of ever declining quality of the training offered and that of the trainers providing it, no wonder many employers looked to craftsmen from other countries without them our industries would have ground to a halt.

However dispite all of this 30 years on there is some light at the end of the tunnel the much criticised NVQ system and the assessors emploed to monitor it are finally starting to show positive results, Some of the old awarding bodies have managed to modernise such as City and Guilds and agin now offer technical certification of a high standard.

The colleges are variable very variable and their ability to provide the course content changes year on year and the quality of those delivery the training is even more variable and it is here much work still needs to be done if we are to turn this sorry state of affairs round.

It is a sorry state of affairs and I hope things get better because I feel manufacturing is now the only thing that would help turn this country round for the better, provide jobs and training for our young people.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

The emphasis on OUR Government. The move away from manufacturing was nothing to do with the EU. Thatcher started it by de regulating the City while at the same time failing to support or actually closing down traditional industries. Globalisation and the internet did the rest. As soon as something can be made cheaper elsewhere it is.

If you think that turning the UK in to some sort of European Singapore but with limited seasonal labour and no trade deals to back sales is going to bring back manufacturing you're sadly mistaken. If negotiations go badly then exports will fall and so will the limited amount of manufacturing jobs.


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Next time you get in your car count the number of French and German cars on our roads, they will want a deal and vice versa.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Next time you get in your car count the number of French and German cars on our roads, they will want a deal and vice versa.

Are they going to get one though?

 

[Barnham Seagull]

The loss of manufacturing is one of the route causes so man feel left behind. Every town would have had manufacturing manual skilled jobs ideally suited to the those that now feel abondened an left behind.

I really don't see how leaving the EU and wanting to be closer trade wise to China, India etc will help manual skilled job prospects if anything more will go.

 

[The Clamp]

And what about those of us that wanted to leave well before Boris, Farage and Cameron were ever heard of ? Which convenient box do we fit into ?

Thick, short sighted and possibly racist. Hard to say which of the three or combination thereof. I'd say you were more shortsighted whereas your JCF, thick.

 

[Barnham Seagull]

People will still by French and German cars because people desire them, you really think paying a little more will stop stone buying an audi, Mercedes, volvo etc

Cars manufactured here will go up to because the supply chain is pan european.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I'm sorry but how the hell else is anyone supposed to read what you stated. You literally said if a deal fails it will be the fault of EU particularly the French and anti Brexit MP's. That is what you typed, what then did you mean?

Yes, I believe if we don't reach a deal the most likely causes will be EU intransigence (led by France) or anti-Brexit alliances within Parliament making our negotiating position untenable leading to the collaspe of the Government. If you really have to ask why the French you haven't been following European politics for the last 5,10,20 30,50,100 + years. Labour's number one goal is bringing down the government, creating an impasse exploiting Brexit is probably their best chance.

Obviously, others think everything's our fault, the governments always wrong etc

 

[Mental Lental]

So in your mind the only people that voted exit were either thick or racist ? Nice.

Pretty much.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Yes, I believe if we don't reach a deal the most likely causes will be EU intransigence (led by France) or anti-Brexit alliances within Parliament making our negotiating position untenable leading to the collaspe of the Government. If you really have to ask why the French you haven't been following European politics for the last 5,10,20 30,50,100 + years. Labour's number one goal is bringing down the government, creating an impasse exploiting Brexit is probably their best chance.

Obviously, others think everything's our fault, the governments always wrong etc

What in your view, out of interest, is currently tenable about our our negotiating position and going well so far?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

So it'll be The EU's fault, as it always is, hence why we're leaving that rancid/awful/undemocratic/self serving organisation, not ours for making assumptions that on doing so they'll just roll over and do exactly what we're want because we're British, they're not and we stood firm in the siege of Mafeking, so they should jolly well play fair and respect us. I understand

Yellow card for misrepresenting an argument. When have I ever said everything is the EU's fault? Have you ever considered the possibility that negotiations might fail because of issues caused by the EU?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Pretty much.

Then you're an idiot and the UK is better off without you being here. I suggest you stay with your xenophobic hosts in Japan.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

What in your view, out of interest, is currently tenable about our our negotiating position and going well so far?

It would be helpful if you could clarify what you mean by our negotiating position as I expect it may differ from mine.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Yes it was an interesting correlation. One reason why I regularly visit this thread is to try and get my head around the stupidity that must have been involved for someone to actually go into a voting booth and vote to become poorer. I get no perspective talking to the expat community here because we're all graduates (a requirement of Japanese immigration) who have experienced what its like living as a foreigner in an inward looking xenophobic island nation. As such we are all staunch remainers to a man. I actually have a little bit more time for the racists than I do for the demonstrably thick or worse, the ones that actually have a few brain cells but have managed to fill those cells up with misinformation and lies.

I've stated before that I believe the vast majority of people who voted Brexit were either racist, thick or too short sighted to see the implications. I believe the other Brexit backers are people that stand to gain financially or politically from us leaving the EU.
Leave voters were, after all manipulated by folks like Boris and Farage and used as pawns in Cameron's political omni-shambles.

Thick, short sighted and possibly racist. Hard to say which of the three or combination thereof. I'd say you were more shortsighted whereas your JCF, thick.

Pretty much.

I've lost count how many times Remainers have complained on this thread that insults don't help the debate ........

 

[ManOfSussex]

Yellow card for misrepresenting an argument. When have I ever said everything is the EU's fault? Have you ever considered the possibility that negotiations might fail because of issues caused by the EU?

Issues caused by the EU? Like them not letting us having our cake and eat it and them being prepared and David Davis and co being like Mike Bassett: England Manager?

If we take just the living rights issue - The EU's demands v The resources of the capabilities and resources of The Home Office. I'm bemused as to why we're even putting up a pretence of having a plan on that one, because it will never be delivered.