[Politics] Brexit

[ManOfSussex]

can you and manofsussex confirm which version is true?
he says the visa fee is payed by the NHS and goes on its budget and you are going with the nurses pay it so can demand higher wages.

The Tier 2 Immigration Skills Charge, which is £1,000 per year per employee is paid by the employer - in this case The NHS.

 

[The Clamp]

The UK government could have introduced more stringent checks anytime they liked. Nothing to do with the EU.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

The UK government could have introduced more stringent checks anytime they liked. Nothing to do with the EU.

We have EU workers working *here* and they all have to go through the same background checks as Brits as we work with an Airline.

 

[pastafarian]

They should have background checks, you are right - I believe most do - but this is not an EU lead problem - it is from the UK Government

EU citizens dont have background checks to enter the UK, the only thing they can be flagged for when entering here is on an international arrest warrant or on a terrorist watch list.

 

[The Clamp]

I believe most reputable employers will carry out their own checks anyway. Dodgy employers never will whatever law is in place and that just leaves people we let in with no job to go to. We could have been doing checks on them for decades but we haven't. No reason to believe we will start once we leave the EU.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

EU citizens dont have background checks to enter the UK, the only thing they can be flagged for when entering here is on an international arrest warrant or on a terrorist watch list.

They do to work though, which is what we are talking about with the NHS.

 

[wellquickwoody]

£1,000 per year, per nurse as a Tier 2 Employee as per the Immigration Skills Charge, all added to The NHS budget.

Wow, nearly matches the 350 mill per week we were promised!

 

[ManOfSussex]

EU citizens dont have background checks to enter the UK, the only thing they can be flagged for when entering here is on an international arrest warrant or on a terrorist watch list.

What background checks do non-EU citizens arriving on a standard visitor visa have?

 

[pastafarian]

What background checks do non-EU citizens arriving on a standard visitor visa have?

i should imagine it varies from country to country but those coming here as tourists or for short periods etc must surely have less checks when they require a visa, rather more of a declaration of facts.
That is the way it should be for people coming here short term,it makes the world tick over.
If there were hoards of rampaging tourists from a particular country i would hope there would be a reassessment of their visa requirements
people coming here long term to live and work is a different ball game all together

 

[Baldseagull]

EU citizens dont have background checks to enter the UK, the only thing they can be flagged for when entering here is on an international arrest warrant or on a terrorist watch list.

We have visa free travel with 50 odd other countries of the world, and I think we will have visa free travel with the EU post Brexit. We may not get the info we used to get on dangerous EU citizens though, which is not limited to terrorism suspects, or those with warrants.

 

[pastafarian]

They do to work though, which is what we are talking about with the NHS.

But they dont to enter the country, which is your first port of call.
Its rather akin to letting everyone into the Amex without checking their ticket and then going round the stadium and asking do you have a valid ticket for this seat.

But lets take your point, A french nurse is offered a job in the NHS and is required to have a criminal check to work in the NHS, thats great, so what is the problem with after obtaining that criminal check its handed in to Mr border control who issues a work visa who says ok everything is in order and we currently need nurses from overseas.......its not complicated is it.

 

[ManOfSussex]

i should imagine it varies from country to country but those coming here as tourists or for short periods etc must surely have less checks when they require a visa, rather more of a declaration of facts.
That is the way it should be for people coming here short term,it makes the world tick over.
If there were hoards of rampaging tourists from a particular country i would hope there would be a reassessment of their visa requirements
people coming here long term to live and work is a different ball game all together

My understanding is it's exactly that - a declaration and a proof of means. There are not the resources to do full checks, either at the FCO or The Home Office.

My ex-wife initially came here on a old working holiday visa, valid for 2 years. It was all about proof of means. There were no background checks done and none done here either, as it only entitled her to initially work for 12 months of the 2 year visa, which was never enforced.

 

[ManOfSussex]

A french nurse is offered a job in the NHS and is required to have a criminal check to work in the NHS, thats great, so what is the problem with after obtaining that criminal check its handed in to Mr border control who issues a work visa who says ok everything is in order and we currently need nurses from overseas.......its not complicated is it.

It's not complicated, but I wouldn't hold my breath on The Home Office to have the resources to implement and administrator any of this and other things people want done in terms of immigration post-Brexit successfully anytime soon.

 

[pastafarian]

We have visa free travel with 50 odd other countries of the world, and I think we will have visa free travel with the EU post Brexit. We may not get the info we used to get on dangerous EU citizens though, which is not limited to terrorism suspects, or those with warrants.

We will have visa free travel for tourists and business people i agree,although last week you were saying we wouldnt be able to get on a ferry anymore
I guess you change your stance according to how the wind blows
And we will still share info on international arrest warrants and terrorists like we do now......that wont change the same way there will never be no flights between the EU and UK

 

[pastafarian]

My understanding is it's exactly that - a declaration and a proof of means. There are not the resources to do full checks, either at the FCO or The Home Office.

My ex-wife initially came here on a old working holiday visa, valid for 2 years. It was all about proof of means. There were no background checks done and none done here either, as it only entitled her to initially work for 12 months of the 2 year visa, which was never enforced.

Things have changed tough, workloads have shifted, where criminal checks were carried out by staff at embassies and consulates for the relevant visas(prob not a short term working holiday visa) now applicants for work visas have to provide a certificate from designated sources concerning their criminal history or lack of it.
Not a bad thing is it.........why wouldnt you want this applied to EU citizens coming here to work and live long term before they could get a foot through the door?

 

[Baldseagull]

It is tragic that we will be leaving an organisation seen as expensive and bureaucratic, to create more expensive and bureaucratic systems for immigration, trading arrangements and involvement of projects with the EU that even the Full Brexit Wankers want to keep.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Things have changed tough, workloads have shifted, where criminal checks were carried out by staff at embassies and consulates for the relevant visas(prob not a short term working holiday visa) now applicants for work visas have to provide a certificate from designated sources concerning their criminal history or lack of it.
Not a bad thing is it.........why wouldnt you want this applied to EU citizens coming here to work and live long term before they could get a foot through the door?

You only need to provide criminal record certificates as part of your work visa application if you're working in education, healthcare or social services though. Checks are already done on EU citizens in those sectors. Checks aren't really done on people applying for tourist visas though - it's just a declaration - or from tourists from countries with visa free travel arrangements, such as I would hope we have with other developed, European countries.

 

[ManOfSussex]

It is tragic that we will be leaving an organisation seen as expensive and bureaucratic, to create more expensive and bureaucratic systems for immigration, trading arrangements and involvement of projects with the EU that even the Full Brexit Wankers want to keep.

You never know, but it would appear all EU citizens currently residing here are going to be allowed to continue to do so. Probably. The current 85 page Home Office residency application system, which is thorough and rigorous as Brexit voters want, would take 140 years to process all 3 Million or so EU nationals here with current Home Office resources. Perhaps an alternative system will eventually come about to process them quicker, which presumably would be discriminatory against non-EU nationals also already here and applying for residency, but either way, it will be the biggest administrative task undertaken since ID papers were issued in 1939. Back then there were over 50,000 people requisitioned to work on it and knock at doors, collect forms, process it etc.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

You never know, but it would appear all EU citizens currently residing here are going to be allowed to continue to do so. Probably. The current 85 page Home Office residency application system, which is thorough and rigorous as Brexit voters want, would take 140 years to process all 3 Million or so EU nationals here with current Home Office resources. Perhaps an alternative system will eventually come about to process them quicker, which presumably would be discriminatory against non-EU nationals also already here and applying for residency, but either way, it will be the biggest administrative task undertaken since ID papers were issued in 1939. Back then there were over 50,000 people requisitioned to work on it and knock at doors, collect forms, process it etc.

How anyone (NOT YOU) could seriously think current EU citizens would be told to leave the UK after Brexit is beyond me. Don't know where that would leave my mum who has been in this country for 50+ years. After Brexit I hope a new system is put in place. There needs to be one system for EU and Non EU.

 

[Baldseagull]

We will have visa free travel for tourists and business people i agree,although last week you were saying we wouldnt be able to get on a ferry anymore
I guess you change your stance according to how the wind blows
And we will still share info on international arrest warrants and terrorists like we do now......that wont change the same way there will never be no flights between the EU and UK

Exactly, it depends how the wind blows.
If we give and take and don't waste time on pushing for everything our way, we will have visa free travel, if negotiations turn sour, May decides "no deal is better than a bad deal" and just bails out, then we could end up in a period of limbo where no visa arrangements have been put in place, I know you disagree and see this as an impossibility as it would be so damaging for all parties, I see that, but view it as improbable rather than impossible.

Still, visa free travel for tourists and business people, allows people in unchecked, doesn't it?