[Politics] Brexit

[JC Footy Genius]

Revealed: Free movement of criminals is a risk to our security

..... dossier which shows how the free movement of criminals across the EU puts British families in danger. Every EU citizen has a right to enter the UK under EU law. But EU law does not require other EU member states to inform the UK on a systematic basis of the criminal records of their nationals, creating an effective right of free movement for criminals.

While all murderers convicted in the UK are subject to supervision for the remainder of their life on release, this does not apply to those convicted of murder in other EU member states, to whom no effective supervision requirements apply.

Dossier of 50 most dangerous EU citizens allowed in UK

45 went on to commit serious offences in the UK, including murder & rape

Unamended EU law means free movement for criminals

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/revealed_free_movement_of_criminals_is_a_risk_to_our_security

Problem what problem?

 

[Maldini]

The Brexit campaigner will appear on ITV's Cameron and Farage Live, to be broadcast on June 7 and moderated by Julie Etchingham.

Fantastic.It's on.This will be like watching Mike Tyson in the ring with Duke McKensie.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Fantastic.It's on.This will be like watching Mike Tyson in the ring with Duke McKensie.

Who will play the part of the foreign thug?

 

[Steve in Japan]

Jeremy Paxman did a good impartial documentary on the EU tonight.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07c6n58/paxman-in-brussels-who-really-rules-us

I saw that. It reminded me of FIFA....lots of grand rooms, lots of flags and well paid people looking busy and important. Whilst doing not very much really.

 

[jgmcdee]

I see, your point here being that by accepting a wave of migration of 12% into the country in recent years we should not be concerned with the resultant crime associated with that policy as it is largely consistent with the foreign population.

Don't put words in my mouth. You call the numbers "truly shocking" yet they show that the % of immigrant population in prison is commensurate with the % of native population in prison. So again, what is it that you find "truly shocking"?

We should not be concerned about that as an increase in crime, the cost of dealing with it or the consequences for victims........we can explain to the parents of a raped and murdered child that they shouldn't worry, the last census demonstrated that the prison population was consistent with migration rates.......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...m-Latvia-was-able-to-kill-and-rape-in-UK.html

How absolutely wonderful....

I doubt that the parents of a raped and murdered child care much about the origin of the criminal compared to the loss they have suffered. I'm not going to hunt down news reports of the children of foreign nationals being raped and murdered by British nationals, although we both know it happens, because I find it in very bad taste to use personal suffering to make a point.

Back to your "we need to keep the bad people out". You managed to find a single instance of a known criminal committing another crime in the UK, and I'm sure that there are more, but it doesn't seem like an effective strategy. The February agreement will make it possible to deport immigrants with a criminal record for preventative reasons, so will cover this obvious case and similar. Happy now?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Revealed: Free movement of criminals is a risk to our security

..... dossier which shows how the free movement of criminals across the EU puts British families in danger. Every EU citizen has a right to enter the UK under EU law. But EU law does not require other EU member states to inform the UK on a systematic basis of the criminal records of their nationals, creating an effective right of free movement for criminals.

While all murderers convicted in the UK are subject to supervision for the remainder of their life on release, this does not apply to those convicted of murder in other EU member states, to whom no effective supervision requirements apply.

Dossier of 50 most dangerous EU citizens allowed in UK

45 went on to commit serious offences in the UK, including murder & rape

Unamended EU law means free movement for criminals

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/revealed_free_movement_of_criminals_is_a_risk_to_our_security

Problem what problem?

Two cases below, something that would not have happened in this area 15 years ago.
Combination of Political correctness, poor border controls, lack of integration.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/67...mon-Koroma-Max-N-Gasa-West-Sussex-Schoolgirls
http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/...fter-gay-bashing-attack-on-brighton-seafront/

 

[BigGully]

People commit crime. That's about the length of your argument.


Sent from my iPhone using pineapple upside-down cake

Wow, how can you swipe away the figures, worth noting that this is the one area where there is not a displacement of services, these are crimes that would have not occurred had they not been here, 1000's of new victims, the figures remain too significant not to be an issue whether you are in the remain or brexit camp, for you to casually dismiss them says a lot.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Wow, how can you swipe away the figures, worth noting that this is the one area where there is not a displacement of services, these are crimes that would have not occurred had they not been here, 1000's of new victims, the figures remain too significant not to be an issue whether you are in the remain or brexit camp, for you to casually dismiss them says a lot.

The point is surely that immigrants and the home-born population both 'do things' in every area of endeavour. They murder people, cure people, pay taxes, claim welfare, receive pensions, commit crimes. In the last of these, crime, there seems to be parity between the two groups. In the area of caring for people, immigrants may be ahead of the natives. The reverse is doubtless true in other areas.

You could make an argument against immigration by saying that immigrants commit crimes. Well of course they do. They also do good, keep people alive, care for them. It's no argument at all really.

 

[pb21]

I thought we had agreed that the figures from the MoJ were 14% of the UK prison population which is approx 10,500 a figure that had doubled in last 10 years?

You consider the costs, both quantitative and qualitative of this position is negligible?

Well that's that problem dealt with...........excellent.

No, you said:

"The reason that our foreign prison population is being debated is because of the oft used narrative that UK taxpayers benefit from migration, and migrants.

If that is really credibly true, then the costs of dealing with resultant crime arising from this ever growing constituency is merely one fairly obvious dimension that should be on the balance sheet that is used to support this claim."

I said the foreign prison population represents less than 1% (actually 0.7%) of foreigners engineering the country per year and that the cost of these prisoners is to the taxpayer would be negligible compared to the benefit the other 99.3% bring, so whether its on the 'balance sheet', or not, is really a moot point.

 

[Hamilton]

Wow, how can you swipe away the figures, worth noting that this is the one area where there is not a displacement of services, these are crimes that would have not occurred had they not been here, 1000's of new victims, the figures remain too significant not to be an issue whether you are in the remain or brexit camp, for you to casually dismiss them says a lot.

Last week my 5 year old grandchild went missing whilst we were walking in the Lake District. We were frantic. Thankfully a Polish man found him, calmed him down and bought him a soft drink. He then called the police and we were reunited.

Thank goodness for immigration as without it I fear my grandchild could have been in serious harm.

(Ps this story is made up.)


Sent from my iPhone using pineapple upside-down cake

 

[Chief Wiggum]

if you watched that programme and saw how the EU parliament functions and still want to remain in then the world is doomed.

thought it was interesting that middle aged and older people were divided on the standard argument of national sovereignty and shared sovereignty.
And then the very youngest simply didn’t care about traditional sovereignty at all but I kept on hearing references to "personal" sovereignty(whatever that is), as though they were simply spoilt brats looking after themselves and sod everyone else.

The Paxman documentary was certainly an eye opener for me.

I think that one of the issues is that a lot of people (including me) do not know how the European Union really functions. In this regard the documentary left me feeling very uncomfortable and filled with more doubt about the EU and its future than hope.

One example was the amount of money wasted on the pointless moving of the whole EU parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg once a month at a cost of 100 million. Another was the sheer number of bureaucrats and unelected politicians who have made life long careers on fat salaries and allowances at the tax payers expense was another.

I thought Paxman did a good job in explaining how it all works, but the final impression I was left with was that the whole EU political set up was obese and moribund or at best in need of major surgery.

Any lingering doubt that I may have had about voting to stay in the EU has vanished after seeing this documentary.

 

[cunning fergus]

Don't put words in my mouth. You call the numbers "truly shocking" yet they show that the % of immigrant population in prison is commensurate with the % of native population in prison. So again, what is it that you find "truly shocking"?



I doubt that the parents of a raped and murdered child care much about the origin of the criminal compared to the loss they have suffered. I'm not going to hunt down news reports of the children of foreign nationals being raped and murdered by British nationals, although we both know it happens, because I find it in very bad taste to use personal suffering to make a point.

Back to your "we need to keep the bad people out". You managed to find a single instance of a known criminal committing another crime in the UK, and I'm sure that there are more, but it doesn't seem like an effective strategy. The February agreement will make it possible to deport immigrants with a criminal record for preventative reasons, so will cover this obvious case and similar. Happy now?

I don't need to your position is clear enough.

No one should raise the implications of crime from migrants on the basis that:

1) their crimes committed in the UK are at a rate relatively consistent with native population;
2) their crimes committed in the UK are at a rate relatively consistent with migrant population; and most importantly
3) their crimes committed in the UK are offset due to crimes committed by British citizens abroad.

Victims of crime here can console themselves on any of these statistics, as part of the overall benefit package we get from migrants; in fact they should be grateful they are part of this new growing consistency of victims to the crimes of migrants.

Those lucky enough to have had relatives murdered or raped would never reflect on the cause, never say why, never question the root cause, they would just say......how wonderful, the statistical algorithm says its relatively consistent with demographics analysis.......what a relief.

Truly shocking........I should coco.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

The Paxman documentary was certainly an eye opener for me.

I think that one of the issues is that a lot of people (including me) do not know how the European Union really functions. In this regard the documentary left me feeling very uncomfortable and filled with more doubt about the EU and its future than hope.

One example was the amount of money wasted on the pointless moving of the whole EU parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg once a month at a cost of 100 million. Another was the sheer number of bureaucrats and unelected politicians who have made life long careers on fat salaries and allowances at the tax payers expense was another.

I thought Paxman did a good job in explaining how it all works, but the final impression I was left with was that the whole EU political set up was obese and moribund or at best in need of major surgery.

Any lingering doubt that I may have had about voting to stay in the EU has vanished after seeing this documentary.

I watched it too, with gritted teeth. It is absolutely absurd the amount of money they waste here, especially the transfer of people from Brussels to Strasbourg like you mentioned, even worse it can never be changed just like everything else in the EU. It is not good for democracy.

You could also see how uncomfortable the people where who Paxman interviewed, they knew the EU was wrong, but because they get paid so well for not doing very much, they have turned in to EU puppets. Nobody is accountable, not to you, not to me, the place is out of control and so is the money they spend.

All the people in that place are on a different planet to rest of us, apart from the Eurosceptics.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Sure, like your shit over there doesn't stink?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/foreign-criminals-find-cover-in-germanys-migrant-tide-1457651473

My point being you spout figures without any context. Stats on their own are pretty meaningless. Look at the context of 14%. Compare it to other similar nations in Europe and then with other nations with different immigration policies. But you won't do this. You'll continue with your frenzied verbal diarrhoea spouting all manner of ill-informed and under researched nonsense you've dug up from the Internet.

Maybe if you were a little calmer in character you might take a breath and come up with an argument which actually sticks?

 

[jgmcdee]

I don't need to your position is clear enough.

No one should raise the implications of crime from migrants on the basis that:

1) their crimes committed in the UK are at a rate relatively consistent with native population;
2) their crimes committed in the UK are at a rate relatively consistent with migrant population; and most importantly
3) their crimes committed in the UK are offset due to crimes committed by British citizens abroad.

Victims of crime here can console themselves on any of these statistics, as part of the overall benefit package we get from migrants; in fact they should be grateful they are part of this new growing consistency of victims to the crimes of migrants.

Those lucky enough to have had relatives murdered or raped would never reflect on the cause, never say why, never question the root cause, they would just say......how wonderful, the statistical algorithm says its relatively consistent with demographics analysis.......what a relief.

Truly shocking........I should coco.

The above is not my position, it's just more rubbish that you've made up and somehow believe you can attribute to me. You can't.

You've failed to explain what you find "truly shocking" about the numbers despite being given multiple opportunities. You jump from one ill-informed point to another, trying to divert the conversation with personal attacks and inflammatory language when called on what you write. It's hardly an uncommon tactic, but does you no credit nevertheless.

 

[Steve in Japan]

The Paxman programme is getting little to no space in the broadsheets today. I wonder why? The most topical subject, and a well-respected commentator. Could it be because anybody who saw how the EU really works would have a tough job supporting it? I would urge people to watch it on Iplayer.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Just having a look at the press today. A steady stream of prominent people from the arts queuing up to say stay.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Just having a look at the press today. A steady stream of prominent people from the arts queuing up to say stay.

Yes people with lots of money, now there is a surprise. Speaking to a taxi driver, he is vote leave along with all the drivers. Everyone I know is voting leave.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

The Paxman programme is getting little to no space in the broadsheets today. I wonder why? The most topical subject, and a well-respected commentator. Could it be because anybody who saw how the EU really works would have a tough job supporting it? I would urge people to watch it on Iplayer.

The truth hurts the remain camp.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The above is not my position, it's just more rubbish that you've made up and somehow believe you can attribute to me. You can't.

You've failed to explain what you find "truly shocking" about the numbers despite being given multiple opportunities. You jump from one ill-informed point to another, trying to divert the conversation with personal attacks and inflammatory language when called on what you write. It's hardly an uncommon tactic, but does you no credit nevertheless.

This, this, this.