[Politics] Brexit

[Soulman]

'Tis utter bullshit though.
The polls had remain well in front until the immigration angle was pushed, alongside the implication that all of Turkey would soon be moving here and a poster showing Syrian refugees and the words breaking point. I am not misremembering that. A poster that this piece claims was quickly taken down, as if that means it had little to no effect, yet I am sure everyone has seen it and can remember it, and for some, it made their mind up.
The piece claims it was crystal clear that leaving the single market was inevitable, and then says that not all leave campaigners agreed. So which is it, inevitable or debatable?

Seeing as you are doing exactly what the article stated, I do not think the article is "utter bullshit".
I knew that getting out of the EU meant getting out of the single market, it was mentioned enough in the Leave campaign.
As for bringing Turkey etc into the equation I think those that were voting out did so for the main reasons in the Leave campaign. You seem determined to keep spinning what you would like the reasons to be. Thus the article does describe your stance in my opinion.

 

[Soulman]

Where did you take it from?

I did not put the source up because I thought it might get debated rather than the source dismissed as per.
Here you go, now fill your boots, it was the Spectator.

 

[pb21]

I did not put the source up because I thought it might get debated rather than the source dismissed as per.
Here you go, now fill your boots, it was the Spectator.

No it was an excellent article Soulman, very enlightening. A massive 61% of people don't want a hard Brexit. The will of the people should be followed, don't you think?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

'Tis utter bullshit though.
The polls had remain well in front until the immigration angle was pushed, alongside the implication that all of Turkey would soon be moving here and a poster showing Syrian refugees and the words breaking point. I am not misremembering that. A poster that this piece claims was quickly taken down, as if that means it had little to no effect, yet I am sure everyone has seen it and can remember it, and for some, it made their mind up.
The piece claims it was crystal clear that leaving the single market was inevitable, and then says that not all leave campaigners agreed. So which is it, inevitable or debatable?

DONT MATTER,leave won the vote , deal with it you complete din LEAVE IS LEAVE, you don't leave your foot dangling in the hallway
regards
DR

 

[Chief Wiggum]

 

[Soulman]

From the Guardian within the last fortnight.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City. Michel Barnier wants a “special” relationship with the City of London after Britain has left the bloc, according to unpublished minutes seen by the Guardian that hint at unease about the costs of Brexit on continental Europe. Barnier told a private meeting of MEPs this week that special work was needed to avoid financial instability, according to a European parliament summary of the session. “Some very specific work has to be done in this area,” Barnier said, according to the minutes. “There will be a special/specific relationship. There will need to be work outside of the negotiation box … in order to avoid financial instability.”

 

[Scampi]

What i find most worrying about the hardcore brexiteers is their belief that somehow the democratic process stopped once we had voted leave. There's a quote about the Muslim Brotherhood that they believe in One man one vote once and that applies quite nicely to the Daily Mail wing of the leavers.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

No it was an excellent article Soulman, very enlightening. A massive 61% of people don't want a hard Brexit. The will of the people should be followed, don't you think?

61% OF LEAVER S, REAMAINERS OR A MIXTURE OF BOTH
regards
DR

 

[pb21]

61% OF LEAVER S, REAMAINERS OR A MIXTURE OF BOTH
regards
DR

Read the article you din.

You have given it the thumbs up, I presume you have read something and understood it before you have endorsed it and not just blindly jumped in?!

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Read the article you din.

You have given it the thumbs up, I presume you have read something and understood it before you have endorsed it and not just blindly jumped in?!

I ASKED YOU THE QUESTION ??
regards
DR

 

[pb21]

I ASKED YOU THE QUESTION ??
regards
DR

I GAVE YOU THE ANSWER, YOU SHOULD KNOW IT ANYWAY

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I GAVE YOU THE ANSWER, YOU SHOULD KNOW IT ANYWAY

yep, spin it how you want it .
regards
DR

 

[pb21]

yep, spin it how you want it .
regards
DR

Brilliant!

I am not spinning it all all, its 100% crystal clear, as pointed out in Soulman's excellent post that he copy and pasted from the Spectator.

 

[portslade seagull]

74% of the 52% who voted to leave want a hard Brexit, i.e. 38% of everyone who voted.

Then it says "39 percent want a hard Brexit and 25 percent a soft Brexit." I presume the other 36% don't want any Brexit?

So what exactly is 'the will of the people', reading that it seems to be for a soft Brexit.

In fact almost 2 to 1 in favour of a soft Brexit!

Whichever way you like to spin something to match your beliefs. Anybody can read something and then bend it whichever way they require. I watched PM question time today ( yes sad I know but recovering after a Op ) . If the agreement reached after 2yrs is then voted out at the end of the talks by parliament May will promptly go for the WTO rules. So for the remainers there needs to be some compromise and not the fingers in ears la la la they are coming up with now

 

[Albumen]

74% of the 52% who voted to leave want a hard Brexit, i.e. 38% of everyone who voted.

Then it says "39 percent want a hard Brexit and 25 percent a soft Brexit." I presume the other 36% don't want any Brexit?

So what exactly is 'the will of the people', reading that it seems to be for a soft Brexit.

In fact almost 2 to 1 in favour of a soft Brexit!

Dear me, 83% of all leavers believe unsubstantiated numbers.

This.is.a.poll. It's not voting data.

Here is the yougov summary poll that article was referencing.
https://yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/results#/survey/fd81ac10-e2e9-11e6-86bf-faaf56bfbc81

Here is the poll data.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.n...ihpp0fzqz/InternalResults_170113_Brexit_W.pdf

There were only 1633 people polled, a very small sample of the 33.6 million, only 0.004% of voters.

Weighted result: Of the 1633, 697 voted leave. 515 (74%) of those want a hard brexit. That's 515 people in this poll, not 12.7 million which is 0.0015% of the voters, not "38% of everyone that voted".

Actual (unweighted) result: those that voted leave were only 48% of the survey. So it's quite weighted, and according to this poll Remain won!

 

[Deleted member 22389]

What i find most worrying about the hardcore brexiteers is their belief that somehow the democratic process stopped once we had voted leave. There's a quote about the Muslim Brotherhood that they believe in One man one vote once and that applies quite nicely to the Daily Mail wing of the leavers.

The democratic process will have stopped if Article 50 gets stalled because of these MPs and it doesn't get triggered at all, If that happens there will no point in ever voting again. We would have been well and truly shafted, and don't be surprised when the loudest voices against Brexit end up with nicest jobs in the EU, greedy *******s the lot of them. By the way I don't hate Europeans, my mum is Italian, what I do hate is that greedy organization that takes a lot of money and is accountable to nobody.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Whichever way you like to spin something to match your beliefs. Anybody can read something and then bend it whichever way they require. I watched PM question time today ( yes sad I know but recovering after a Op ) . If the agreement reached after 2yrs is then voted out at the end of the talks by parliament May will promptly go for the WTO rules. So for the remainers there needs to be some compromise and not the fingers in ears la la la they are coming up with now

It's not quite as simple as just 'going for' WTO rules but you're right - the choice the Government will offer MPs will essentially be between the deal they've struck with the EU, or nothing. Rather like offering an employee the choice between a 0.5% pay rise and no pay rise. You say that one side will have to compromise but don't mention the other so perhaps the expression you're looking for is 'give in' rather than 'meet in the middle'.

It is very unlikely that MPs will vote down the deal. But if they did the government would have no practical alternative but to go to the country for an election on the Heathian lines of 'Who Governs Britain'. Unless the deal Davies comes back with is terrible, or the economy has gone completely off the rails, or sitting MPs decide to campaign according to their beliefs then I'd expect the Government to win.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I did not put the source up because I thought it might get debated rather than the source dismissed as per.
Here you go, now fill your boots, it was the Spectator.

What a sensitive sausage you are. Not quoting the source means that the article is without context. The Spectator is a respectable if 100 per cent long term Brexit campaigning publication but as you have previously quoted, sometimes without attribution, pieces from UKIP publications, the Daily Express and the distant-right Breitbart website you shouldn't be surprised if someone asks where you are lifting from.

 

[Scampi]

The democratic process will have stopped if Article 50 gets stalled because of these MPs and it doesn't get triggered at all, If that happens there will no point in ever voting again. We would have been well and truly shafted, and don't be surprised when the loudest voices against Brexit end up with nicest jobs in the EU, greedy *******s the lot of them. By the way I don't hate Europeans, my mum is Italian, what I do hate is that greedy organization that takes a lot of money and is accountable to nobody.

Sorry but you've largely illustrated my point.

 

[Soulman]

What a sensitive sausage you are. Not quoting the source means that the article is without context. The Spectator is a respectable if 100 per cent long term Brexit campaigning publication but as you have previously quoted, sometimes without attribution, pieces from UKIP publications, the Daily Express and the distant-right Breitbart website you shouldn't be surprised if someone asks where you are lifting from.

And you wonder why I never quoted the source straight off. Not a sensitive sausage, just knew the reaction, the reaction being the source.